Is there SKS going to the NSW Archives?

[Sandra Parker]

John Chilvers, the son of Thomas Chilvers and Sarah Browne, was born 21st Jun 1798, baptised on 17th Jul 1803 and married Sarah Pearl(Purl) on 16th October 1823. All at Dickleburgh. They had 7 children between 1834 and 1837.

In 1841, Sarah is receiving Parish Relief and is listed as a pauper, her situation improves over the years and she dies in 1876. John disappears around the birth of the youngest child.
Norfolk court records show his possible appearance as there is a John Chilvers, on 3 Jan 1838, resulting in transportation for 7 years.

Enquiries at this end show a John Chilvers being one of 240 convicts transported on the Portsea, 24 July 1838. Great Britain. Home Office.; State Library of Queensland.Criminal : Convict transportation registers [HO 11] (I am following this up).

I would really appreciate it if someone could find out the details of the Norfolk Court trial which resulted in the 7 year sentence.

And the big question, did he get back to England? He certainly does not appear to have rejoined the family, who seem to have remained in or near Dickleburgh.

Sandra whose spectacled aura isn't quite sure about being connected to a convicted felon

[Sandra Parker]

Thank you Ron One for the PM. That's my boy, stealing wheat, 6 children, one died at or soon after birth and another son given the same name.
Sandra whose spectacled aura is happy now we know he wasn't really that naughty, given his circumstances.

[Sandra Parker]

Thanks to some great direction from OneRon, I know have found him on the 'Portsea' leaving Portsmouth on 31st July on and arriving in Sydney on 18 Dec, 1838. I know he was 5'4", with brown skin and eyes with light brown hair and 'Eyebrows partly meeting.Scar on back of middle finger on right hand. Same contracted a little and nail disfigured.'
He was a Protestant and had previously received a 2 month sentence.
He became a Ticket of Leave man and on the 12th Feb 1845 was given a Certificate of Freedom.
Now did he get home or not?
Sandra

[Findem]

Hi Sandra,

As over here in Australia having a transported convict in the family is considered a status symbol, you're up there with the OZ aristocracy :coolgleamA:

Disclaimer: This does not include any modern day felons. :lol:

Regards

[Sandra Parker]

Hi Sandra,

As over here in Australia having a transported convict in the family is considered a status symbol, you're up there with the OZ aristocracy :coolgleamA:
Regards

Whoopee! John Chilvers, convict, tranportee and generally concerned family man, is my GGGrandfather. This is now confirmed as at the end of his sentence he applied to have his wife Sarah Pearl of Dickleburgh, be brought to Australia. I've got a copy of the application. And I know all about her.
So Findem, I've got one!
Now to find out whether he went back to England when she did not/could not join him.

Sandra whose spectacled aura is now really chuffed at being associated with a noted personage.

[Mutley]

Sandra, according to Ancestry UK, Prison Hulk Registers and Letter Books, 1802-1849
he was sent to Portsea on the 19 July 1838 and sailed out on a ship called the 'York' leaving from Gosport.
Prisoner number 7608. (Here it says he stole corn)

On the Criminal Registers it says the crime was Larceny, before convicted of Felony. !!

There is also a reference to another John Chilvers born about 1793. His trial was on the 29 July 1839 at Norfolk and he received 3 months for Larceny. A relative?

I cannot see any evidence of your John making it back to the UK.

[t@nya]

I checked the NSW births, deaths, and marriage index and couldn't find the death of John, but I'm not certain the indexes are 100% accurate.

[Findem]

Hi Sandra,

How lucky are you! One of my Ancestors had a sibling who was the last man hung in Essex but unfortunately it doesn't qualify me for a place in the Oz aristocracy, according to a co researcher who researched his life "if something wasn't screwed or nailed down, he would nick it". His last crime was to cut down someone's fruit trees, the complainants were reported to have said, words to the effect, that if they knew he would be hung for the crime they would have withdrawn charges, the good old days eh!

According to the same researcher the outcry led to hanging being abolished in Essex, just think, if he hadn't been hung, he might have been transported and then I might have just crept into Oz aristocracy, so close!

Regards from plain old working class findem.

[Mutley]

Hi Sandra,

How lucky are you! One of my Ancestors had a sibling who was the last man hung in Essex but unfortunately it doesn't qualify me for a place in the Oz aristocracy, according to a co researcher who researched his life "if something wasn't screwed or nailed down, he would nick it". His last crime was to cut down someone's fruit trees, the complainants were reported to have said, words to the effect, that if they knew he would be hung for the crime they would have withdrawn charges, the good old days eh!

According to the same researcher the outcry led to hanging being abolished in Essex, just think, if he hadn't been hung, he might have been transported and then I might have just crept into Oz aristocracy, so close!

Regards from plain old working class findem.

He was not alone, many had swung before...
www.
essex-family-history.co.uk/hung.htm

[Sandra Parker]

With help, I have been able to trace my recalcitrant GGGrandfather John Chilvers, from Norfolk to NSW on the Portsea, arriving in Dec 1838. I have details of his conviction for stealing 2 bushells of wheat and the subsequent trial,sentence and voyage.
He is listed on the Portsea convict list.
I understand that there is a muster list which shows the names of some of the convicts and their placement.
The reference is NRS 1155 Musters and other papers relating to convict ships [2/8273]
Portsea 1838 p.353 Includes list of men to labour on the public works.

I am wondering if SKS who may be going to the NSW Archive at some time, could have a look and see if there is any reference to John Chilvers.
Thanks
Sandra

[Hugh Thompson]

Hi Sandra, I was just having a look through the NSW Indexes Online and came across a listing for a John Chilvers up on a horse stealing charge at Goulburn NSW, 7th March 1854, is he your man?
Sorry I can't help as regards the Archives as I'm miles away from them, I have read that some of the musters and volumes that he could be mentioned in were forwarded to London in December 1839. PRO ref: HO10/32-35.
Regards.
Hugh.

[Sandra Parker]

Hi Sandra, I was just having a look through the NSW Indexes Online and came across a listing for a John Chilvers up on a horse stealing charge at Goulburn NSW, 7th March 1854, is he your man?


Oh dear, I hope not! Though the dates and even the place are quite possible. One thing to have a food stealing convict, not sure about horse stealing, though. I will see if I can follow that up.
Also thank for the Muster reference in London.

Sandra whose spectacled aura would be really pushing to cope with a common horse thief.

[Hugh Thompson]

:yikes:I don't know Sandra, I think horse stealing adds a bit of pizazz to the family tree.:biggrin5::biggrin5:
Hugh.

[spison]

...forwarded to London in December 1839. PRO ref: HO10/32-35. Hugh.
These have probably been copied in the AJCP and the microfilms can be borrowed on inter-library loan from the NLA. You'll need the index. This might help (or a search for AJCP indexes online may give you an actual searchable index):

http://www.
slwa.wa.gov.au/find/guides/family_history/australian_joint_copying_project/using_the_ajcp_handbooks?SQ_DESIGN_NAME=print

You might be better off to contact SRNSW to see if they'll copy it for you. It might just be a list of names although I hope it's better than that. I can't forsee when I can get to Kingswood. (I'm about 2 hours away.) but if you have no luck with this send me a PM after New Year and I'll have a better idea then. Perhaps someone else is going sooner?


One thing to have a food stealing convict, not sure about horse stealing, though....
Sandra whose spectacled aura would be really pushing to cope with a common horse thief.
He might have been hungry! :rofl:

Jane

[ChristineR]

I was looking at online resources available to me and I see an application from John to bring his wife (Sarah nee Pearl) and six children out to Australia. It says, for Residence of Wife and to whom known - County of Norfolk is crossed out. Town or Parish of Dickleborough known to the Rev Wm Haddock near Dickleborough, Mr James Draon[?], farmer, and Mr A Raynor farmer, Longnore [?] near Dickleborough. Colonial Secretary's Office, Sydney 1st July 1842

[ChristineR]

Do you have his ticket of leave information?
His Ticket of Leave is originally dated 3 Feb 1843 but is marked up the side ... 'Altered to Yass 29th Feby 1844 having left the service of Mr Milsom.'
it has his basic voyage and sentence details, no general remarks.
Allowed to remain in the District of Pittwater on the recommendation of Sydney Bench, October 1842.

[Sandra Parker]

Thanks very much. Yes that's my chap, and I have details on another thread. But I just wanted this thread to be about the availability of this record in NSW Archives. (By the way, his family never did join him)
Sandra

[Sandra Parker]

I may have found John staying in Australia. I have a death certificate for a John Chilvers died 23 MAY 1863 at Collector, NSW. Quite a few details do match, but others are quite inaccurate.
I wonder if someone could find a marriage for John Chilvers and a Mary Walter or Walker in 1854 in Goulbourne NSW. Hopefully there might be a few more clues to help identify whether this really is my chap.
Thanks
Sandra

[Procat]

Hi Sandra,

Are you asking to check the Index or the certificate.

If the former V1854330 85/1854 CHILVERS JOHN & WALTER MARY A

Whilst the NSW index does not record the place of the event Ancestry has the district as Goulburn, Gunning, Yass (County of Argyle), New South Wales

[Hugh Thompson]

Hi Sandra, there are two articles on Trove Feb 1854 re a John Chilvers of Collector NSW losing three to four hundred bushells of wheat due to arson, see address below.
Hugh.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=CHILVERS&l-decade=185&l-year=1854

[Sandra Parker]

Thanks Hugh, I did have that - ironic if he is 'my' chap as he was transported for stealing 2 bushells of the stuff!
Thanks for the details, Procat. Will need to get the certificate. If he is mine, he certainly won't have put 'married' in the status column, but it may give me some other details - or maybe not!.
I could do with a nice long accurate obituary in the local paper. Unfortunately, doesn't look promising on that one - well not on Trove anyway.
Sandra

[spison]

V1854330 85/1854 CHILVERS JOHN & WALTER MARY A
Whilst the NSW index does not record the place of the event Ancestry has the district as Goulburn, Gunning, Yass (County of Argyle), New South Wales

Save your money! If you want someone to actually look at what this says I can do this next time I'm at a local centre. I can only take a transcription as you are not allowed to take a copy. (You can look at this yourself if you have a large centre near you that holds a copy of the ARK (Archives Records Kit). Only this record on the Pioneers CD of NSW BDM will tell you the church/area.

The Goulburn papers are indexed for some years in the Southern Highlands Library in Goulburn as they're not on TROVE yet. The staff there would dearly love them on TROVE. If you contacted the research librarian in Goulburn she might take a look for you.

Jane

[Sandra Parker]

Thanks Jane. I have written to the library, so hopefully there may be something. I have also found an old email address on line for someone interested in the wife, who although known as Mary/MaryAnn Walters/Walker, was probably the convict transported as Mary Ann Cavanagh who was born in Lancashire, England c 1815. She came to Australia as a convict on the "John Renwick" in 1838 as Mary Ann WALKER.
So I"ll follow that up.
If only I could find some proof that my John and the Collector John, were one and the same.
Sandra, whose spectacled aura is staying right out of it till we know if he's the right chap.

[spison]

Hi Sandra,
Some random thoughts.
1. If he was found guilty of anything and was sent to gaol you would have a description which would hopefully match up in a lot of ways with the description you know to be your man. Gaol records are wonderful things and should also state his ship of arrival so that would be absolutely brilliant as he may have grown since he arrived. (I kid you not!) Probably Goulburn gaol but he could have gone anywhere unless it was a short sentence. I don't think that these are on Ancest** yet. The NSW Police Gazettes if you can get hold of them may also have references to him but they may not be in Darwin.
2. If Southern Highlands comes up with some references, and doesn't offer to look them up for you, the microfilms for the Goulburn Herald are at the NLA and you may be able to get the film/s you need on interlibrary loan.
3. Goulburn, Gunning and Collector were quite sparsely populated at this time and the other John CHILVERS was at Bathurst.
4. I will try to get and look up your marriage before Christmas but you know what it's like at this time of the year. I'm trying to find out whether there is a copy of the ARK in Darwin as I expect it would be there and you could look sooner. Once upon a time I knew where to look for this info!
Jane

[spison]

There's only one copy of the ARK in the NT.

It's held at:
Genealogical Society of The Northern Territory (limited opening hours)
1st Floor, 25 Cavenagh Street DARWIN NT 0800

They'll know how to use it as the BDM reels are fiddly if you want to have a try.

Here is the SRNSW link to tell you what is there - you add the www.

records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/archives-in-brief/archives-in-brief-39

(And for anyone in the UK, the British Library has a copy.)

Jane

[spison]

Hi Sandra,
Transcript of V1854330 85/1854 follows. Sadly there were no ages or marital status stated in the record.


I, John Chilvers do hereby declare that I am a Member of, or hold Communion with the Wesleyan Church. John (X) Chilvers - his mark.
I, Mary Ann Walker do hereby declare that I am a Member of, or hold Communion with the Wesleyan Church. Mary Ann (X) Walker - her mark.
I, Benjamin Hurst of Goulburn, Minister of the Wesleyan Church, do hereby Certify that John Chilvers of Collector and Mary Ann Walker of Collector were joined together in Wedlock by me, on the First day of February, 1854, at Goulburn in the presence of James Wakefield and Ann Hurst, both of Goulburn.
James (X) Wakefield - his mark
Ann Hurst (signed)

Jane

[Sandra Parker]

Thank you very much for that. Why couldn't he have just added ex convict, arrived in New South Wales in 1838, formerly of Dickleburgh, Norfolk?
Then I'd have known it was my chap!
Oh well, back to the drawing board!
Best wishes for a great Christmas and a Happy, and rewarding, New Year.
Sandra and her increasingly festive spectacled aura.

[spison]

...John Chilvers up on a horse stealing charge at Goulburn NSW, 7th March 1854....Hugh.
If my thinking in connection to this is correct, John must have gone to trial for this event. If I were you I'd be hoping he was found guilty! I will be going to SR - Globe Street before Kingswood - early in the year - probably mid-January as I need to look at the Goulburn Gaol records for my own research. I will start looking a decade earlier to see if he turns up in that gaol for this crime.

Merry Christmas (and celebrate your felon's life)
Sandra

[spison]

PM sent
Jane

[Sandra Parker]

So as of now!

For my John Chilvers, I have personal details, ag lab., court case, hulk record, transportation, application for family to join him, ticket of leave and freedom certificate. Dates up till 1843. Did not appear to have returned to his native Norfolk. I cannot find any other details of him after his arrival other than the 3 documents mentioned, so no idea of where or for whom, he worked after his arrival in 1838. there is a reference to a Mr Milson on his Ticket of Leave, a variation as he had left the employ of Mr Milson. (I do have some details of Mr Milson and his role in the colony)

Then I have John Chilvers, same area, same father's name, similar time in colony of NSW, married a convict in 1854 (although if this is my chap, his wife was still alive in Norfolk- remarriage I know was not an unusual occurrence), selected land, wheat farmer, possibly fruiterer. Had some wheat burned by arsonist (ironic as my chap was transported for stealing wheat!) died at Collector NSW, as a result of a fall from a cart and broke his back, I have details. His wife, Mary, for whom I do have details, was the one who reported the death, and presumably gave the family details on death record. I also have Trove reports of the accident and death.

But I cannot find any document or reference for either of them(if there are 2) for the period 1843-1854, which would provide a documentary link.

So I'll just have to keep looking and hoping!
Sandra whose spectacled aura is not of any help at the moment.

[Nannas]

Hi Sandra,
The other John CHILVERS from Bathrust appears to die in 1906 aged 75yrs (so a bit late to be your John.)

Goulburn was the Diocese for the Yass/Collector and surrounding areas back then so it would fit with your John being mentioned in those areas.

I tried checking my cemetery transcripts of Collector Cemetery (hoping to get an age or any other info) but I couldn't see him listed. (might have to check the burial register)

Nannas

[spison]

Sandra,
I agree with Nannas. Maybe the best you can do is eliminate all the others (and be thankful his name wasn't John SMITH or DAVIS or something equally as common.) I haven't forgotten but haven't had a chance to get to either Globe or Kingswood - but I looked up the Goulburn Gaol records and posted that on another thread. What I didn't say there was that there are a lot of men in Goulburn Gaol records who arrived on his ship.
Jane