Anybody heard of William Watts?

[Mick19]

Trying to find any reference to William Watts, believed born abt 1878 England, not known when or where he arrived Australia, but with Elsie Jane Bucknell 1886-1940, they had, James 1907, Elsie 1909. Edith1911, Lillian May 1919, Wallace Oswald 1923, Eddie 1924, Edna 1925. Dates are approximate. Most born Melbourne Northern suburbs. William Watts listed on his children's birth certs as a "Carter" or "Driver."
There is no record of marriage, although Bucknell (aged 19) married Robert Quilliam (aged 40) on 7 Aug 1905, at East Brunswick. No further trace of Quilliam. Have tried all the usual searches but have hit that proverbial "Brick Wall".

[Waitabit]

Hi Mick19, an interesting search thro' the Electoral rolls( only did Victoria) didn't find the childen with certainty but the Wtts Quilliam names were interseting. Not found in cemetery searches but often they don't come up in the iniitial search.Don't know if you have done the electoral rolls but here are some anyway.

1903 Robert & Alice Quilliam (Baker)18 Charles st. st Kilda-Balaclava

1909 Elsie & William Watts (Farmer),Hallamas rd,Dandenong

1914 Robert Quilliam & Elsie Jane 47 O'Connor St. E.Brunswick. (Labourer)
1919Rrobert Quilliam & Elsie Jane 47 O'Connor St.E.Brunswick.

1924 Robert Quilliam alone Armadale 26 Chatsworth rd.
1931 Robert Quilliam alone chatsworth rd. labourer.

1931 Elsie Jane Quilliam 33 o'Connor St. E,.
1931William Francis J Quilliam 33 O'Connor st. driver.

1936 Elsie Jane Quilliam Alone 30 O'connor st.

1936 william Francis J Quilliam carrier 14 Methven st also Dorothy Quilliam home duties. Bourke-Blyth

1937 Elsie Jane Quilliam 33 O'Connor st

1937 Dorothy Julia Quilliam & William Francis J Quilliam carrier.at 8 Leyden St.
1942 3 linden st.Dorothy & William.a carrier.

1949 +1954
WATTS Wallace Oswald driver 20 dresden st.Deakin-Heidelberg
WATTS Joyce Oliff V 20 Dresden St. Home duties

way past my bedtime, Hope it's of some use.

[Mick19]

Hi Wendy, Thanks heaps for your work. Some of your Electoral hits are the same as mine. Verified have been...1914 and 1919 address of 47 O'Connor St East Brunswick, Vic, is also recorded on Birth Cert for Wallace Oswald Watts, in 1923, so it is confirmed. Also the 1949 and 1954 20 Dresden is confirmed. 1903 address is interesting due to occupation of Quillian as baker, Elsie would only be 17 at that stage and Robert would be 47, big difference in age? I note you are from SA, I made enq at SA State Library, they were very helpful, and supplied info on Robert Quilliam...born Adelaide 11 May 1856, father, James Quilliam, mother, Catherine Ellen Clague. (There are lots of variations in spelling Clague) Whilst Robert was born in Adelaide, his family moved to Vic where his 9 siblings were born. Vic BDM shows death of Robert 1 Sep 1939. Cert lists him as retired baker, parents, also wife Jane Bucknell and 3 of his children.
It just gets more interesting???
Many thanks,
Mick.

[Waitabit]

HI Mick I missed to from my notes last night..late night for me as you see by typos.

1903 William Watts- carter-3 Brougham place Richmond

1903 Jane Bucknell- Victoria Northern Melbourne Carlton North

I tried a few cemetery searches..St.Kilda..Springvalee etc. Too many for someone who doesn't know the Family.
Several likely ones. Have you tried here?

http://deceasedsearch.com/index.php

[judyg]

Hi Mick

How sure are you about the births of the children to William Watts and Elsie Jane Bucknell?

Victorian birth registrations have no children listed to this couple prior to 1920.

The one birth that does have a match is that of Lilian Mary Watts born 1919 – Father William Watts – Mother Elsie Jane Quillian Registration No. 1167.

This Registration is a double entry . The second entry states Lilian Mary Quillian – No father recorded – Mother Elsie Jane Quillian. It would be worthwhile getting the birth certificate

Cheers
Judyg

[ChristineR]

William Watts, believed born abt 1878 England, not known when or where he arrived Australia, but with Elsie Jane Bucknell 1886-1940, they had, James 1907, Elsie 1909. Edith 1911...
I think that you will find that the children registered before 1919 are the children of Robert Quilliam, they were registered as such.

1914 and 1919 address of 47 O'Connor St East Brunswick, Vic, is also recorded on Birth Cert for Wallace
1919 is also the same year that a child was registered as a child with William Watts, with Elsie's maiden name recorded as Quilliam. [see Judy's post above - I was slow typing, but you cannot get this certificate easily, as it is less than 100 years old]
Are all the later children you have mentioned deceased? as they may be upset to find unmarried parents if they are still alive.

[Mick19]

Hi Wendy,
The two 1903 addresses don't coincide with any I have.
The deceased search has turned up a bonanza!
Found the following,
Register No. 42698 Elsie Jane Quilliam (aged 55) buried 12.12.1940.
Register No. 27881 Edgar Joseph Watts (3 months) buried 19.12.1921.
Register No. 34600 William Watts (aged 49) buried 9.11.1927.
All at Fawkner Memorial park, located at Coburg Cemetery, Salvation Army, Compartment P Grave No. 160.

Cemetery records tend to prove that Elsie Jane Bucknell (married name Quilliam) later raised a family with William Watts but never married him. Maybe couldn't get divorce?
Never knew of Edgar, so he is now added to data base.
Re William Watts, now have reliable dates for birth & death. We believe he was born in England, so I now start searching.....
Thanks again,
Mick

[Mick19]

Hi Judy,
Thanks for your reply. Most of my information on the births for the children of William Watts and Elsie Jane Quilliam have come via word of mouth from relatives, which I consider is fairly reliable. One I have cert for is Wallace Oswald Watts 1923. Like you I have had trouble with others. I think they were a bit lax about notifying BDM in those days. And considering they apparently weren't married may have been reluctant?
I will chase up cert for Lillian Mary Watts/Quilliam. Off hand have you any idea why there would be a double entry?
Thanks
Mick

[Mick19]

Hi Christine,
Thanks for your reply.
All of the children of William Watts and Elsie Jane Quilliam (Bucknell) are deceased. I thought all of the children were fathered by William? Can you help with any info that some might belong to Robert Quilliam? If there are any they would all be over 100 years old by now.
Re Lillian May Watts 1919, she was married at age 20, in 1939 to Ron Dan Hutchinson, Vic BDM Reg 13897. Am I correct in assuming she would have produced her birth cert or extract for the marriage? If so, her maiden name was Watts? Have you any idea why there would be a double entry? (See Judyg Reply)
By the way, I must thank you again for the "Detective work" you did for me a couple of years ago, when you found the marriage of Frank Woods to Clive Malham, "Clive" was actually "Olive", which of course caused me no end of trouble!!! My wife thought she had two grandfathers, Frank & Clive!
Thanks
Mick

[Waitabit]

Hi Wendy,
The two 1903 addresses don't coincide with any I have.
The deceased search has turned up a bonanza!
Found the following,
Register No. 42698 Elsie Jane Quilliam (aged 55) buried 12.12.1940.
Register No. 27881 Edgar Joseph Watts (3 months) buried 19.12.1921.
Register No. 34600 William Watts (aged 49) buried 9.11.1927.
All at Fawkner Memorial park, located at Coburg Cemetery, Salvation Army, Compartment P Grave No. 160.

Cemetery records tend to prove that Elsie Jane Bucknell (married name Quilliam) later raised a family with William Watts but never married him. Maybe couldn't get divorce?
Never knew of Edgar, so he is now added to data base.
Re William Watts, now have reliable dates for birth & death. We believe he was born in England, so I now start searching.....
Thanks again,
Mick

that's what it's all about Mick,any little thing which helps dismantle the old brikkie. :)

[judyg]

Hi Christine,
Thanks for your reply.
All of the children of William Watts and Elsie Jane Quilliam (Bucknell) are deceased. I thought all of the children were fathered by William? Can you help with any info that some might belong to Robert Quilliam? If there are any they would all be over 100 years old by now.
Re Lillian May Watts 1919, she was married at age 20, in 1939 to Ron Dan Hutchinson, Vic BDM Reg 13897. Am I correct in assuming she would have produced her birth cert or extract for the marriage? If so, her maiden name was Watts? Have you any idea why there would be a double entry? (See Judyg Reply)
By the way, I must thank you again for the "Detective work" you did for me a couple of years ago, when you found the marriage of Frank Woods to Clive Malham, "Clive" was actually "Olive", which of course caused me no end of trouble!!! My wife thought she had two grandfathers, Frank & Clive!
Thanks
Mick

Hi Mick

The children recorded to Robert Quilliam and Elsie Jane Bucknell are : Wm Fran Jas born 1907, Elsie Louisa Jane born 1909 and Edith Agnes Mary born 1912.

I am assuming there would be a double registration entry for Lilian for the same reason we have them here in SA. It is an illegitimate birth but the fathers name is stated. I would assume that she would be legally entitled to the surnmae of Watts. Her birth certificate will give you the information.

The Victorian CD indexes for births cut off at 1920 so any further children recorded to William and Elsie would not be on them.

Cheers
Judyg

[Mick19]

Hi Judy,
Have tried Vic BDM, Reg No 1167 you listed, but it relates to other people, wrong number?
Also have tried different combinations of name and I can't get Lillian Mary Watts/Quilliam/Bucknell?
I give in, how did you do it? Vic BDM Index only goes to 1910?
Mick

[Procat]

Hi Mick,

Whilst the online version goes to 1910 the CD version goes to 1920.

[judyg]

Hi Judy,
Have tried Vic BDM, Reg No 1167 you listed, but it relates to other people, wrong number?
Also have tried different combinations of name and I can't get Lillian Mary Watts/Quilliam/Bucknell?
I give in, how did you do it? Vic BDM Index only goes to 1910?
Mick

Hi Mick

As Procat has already stated the Vic BDM office has moved the date of historical birth records back to the 100 year cutoff, however if you are a direct descendant or have access to a direct family member you can still apply for a certificate using the application form on the BDM site. I have been able to get them in the past.

Cheers
Judyg

[Waitabit]

Just a guess here after flipping thro' passenger lists..I checked the 1901 UK census,( you're not sure when William arrived in Australia),.. found a William living with Father William, both 'coach wheelers'.. (Wheel wright)
William born Finsbury res. Clerkenwell /Pentonville Mother Mary Ann, Brother Benjamin 21 & sister Gertrude 19.
RG13; Piece: 251; Folio: 161; Page: 27.

10 yrs later William Benjamin snr. 71 b.( Colchester) old age pensioner, late Wheelers is with Wife Mary Ann, Son Benjamin a chauffer & his Wife & Family. Too many Williams to try to search for William jnr. FMP isn't kind to people who use birthplaces or occupations.

1881
RG11; Piece: 354; Folio: 27; Page: 47

didn't find 1891 may be mistranscribed as Walls or such.

All may mean nothing,but i'm whiling away until I can make my Tomato chutney.:)