Missing New Zealand marriage

[Araminta]

Two of my great great grandparents married in New Zealand in the 1860s, according to 2ggf's death certificate and their daughter's marriage certificate. But the marriage is nowhere to be found on the NZ BDM site.
I've also tried Eng&Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Australian state searches, and there were no marriages for anyone of the 2ggm's name anywhere near the right time. 2ggf's name is very common.

Going on the little I've read, early New Zealanders seem to have been very concerned about respectability - and it was a small community - theerefore I'd be surprised if this couple lived together unmarried. Their daughter & son-in-law got married in her father's house, so presumably the family weren't big churchgoers.

Is there anywhere else that their marriage might be recorded?

I'm particularly hoping to get further details of where they originally came from; the marriage cert would have information recorded closest to their time of arrival in NZ.

Also, are there large forums for NZ ancestry that anyone could direct me to?

Thanks.

[Coromandel]

Hi Araminta

Have you tried the New Zealand old newspapers site, Papers Past (http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz)? It may also be worth posting your great-great-grandparents' names here, in case any of our super-sleuths can find the marriage for you.

P.S. I would be interested to learn more about your forum name: I remember my grandmother (b.1903) telling me she had a doll called Araminta, but I never discovered why she chose that name.

[KathNZ]

Please post their names & the approx date of marriage. I will have a look in my resources.

[Araminta]

I haven't seen the Papers Past site before. Cheers! Will have a look at that tomorrow.

The great great grandparents in question were John Hill (d. 1918, aged 83 according to the certificate) and Esther Gavin. I have sent off for a death certificate - for an Esther Hill aged 62 in 1902 - that may be hers. They first appear living in Port Chalmers, South Island, where their daughter Mary Catherine was born in 1866.
John Hill's death cert reckons he was born in Birkenhead and arrived in NZ 54 years prior to his death... but Birkenhead is also where passenger ships left for Australia, so I'm sceptical.

There is no Esther Gavin on any Aus/NZ passenger lists I've so far found. There must be many other lists I haven't seen though. No John Hills of the right age on NZ lists yet, though (going against the leaving from Birkenhead theory) there are three convicts of approximately the right age who were sent to Australia.

When I was younger I wished I was called Araminta. I first heard it as the name of the main character in a time-travel themed children's book and TV series called Moondial; other British people in their thirties may also remember it.

Your username, Coromandel, makes me think of an obscure Chanel perfume of the same name, though it's also a place, isn't it?

[KathNZ]

John Hill married Esther Gavin 1863, Victoria, Australia. ref no 890

[Araminta]

That's really kind of you Kath. Here's some additional info.
John's age at marriage is given as 31 on his death cert, so 1865-66 if his age is accurate. Place of marriage: Port Chalmers. John is described as a carpenter or joiner on different certificates.

[KathNZ]

Mrs Esther Hill arrived Otago from Melbourne 1863. Departed 04 Dec 1863 on "Lahore" aged 22

The Victorian marriage cert. will have good information on it. I wouldn't worry too much about the info on the death cert being incorrect. I have had many death certs that are not 100% correct.

[Araminta]

WOW! That was so quick. I'm really amazed and extremely grateful. I first tried to find this out about ten years ago!!

[spison]

John Hill married Esther Gavin 1863, Victoria, Australia. ref no 890

Thanks to Kath (who did all the finding) you should be able to instantly get this online with plastic by going to:

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/home

I have only ever purchased the cheaper option (of the actual register) and been very happy. It will come as a .pdf. You should get both parents' names and mother's maiden name, occupations, abode etc. With the register page you'll get actual signatures. I can't really comment on the other option but it might be the same without two other (probably) unrelated marriages ... but you might be really lucky with them. Let us know how you get on.

Jane

[KathNZ]

The death cert for Esther should be the right one as there is an Esther Hill buried in the Port Chalmers cemetery in 1902 in the same plot as John Hill who died in 1918

[Araminta]

This is fantastic. Thank you so much.

Esther IS Irish after all, from Galway (one of only two places in Ireland I've stayed!). She was a milliner and her father was a coachbuilder. I will be off to the Irish board tomorrow.

John was a builder at the time, it says, and was born in Manchester. So that's now 3 separate strands of my family who were there in the mid nineteenth century, and their genes wouldn't meet for another 40 and 90 years respectively. His father Henry was a builder and his mother's name was Jane Lloyd: another Welsh line! And John's age is given as 23, so maybe he can be tracked down in the 1841 census.

All four of their parents were deceased at the time of their marriage and both had lost a parent when they were small children.

They were married in Rehoboth Chapel, Princes Street, [unreadable] There are lots of Rehoboth Chapels in Wales & northern England but can't see one in Australia. They were Particular Baptists, which is unexpected. The more recent ancestors & relatives on that side were all very moderate C of E or uninterested in religion.

John's address reads as Queen Street Melbourne, and it looks as if he had just moved to a place further down the same street where Esther lived. It looks like "Bank of Last" East? West?

[KathNZ]

Great news, the Victorian certificates give great information !

[KathNZ]

Did John Hill's death cert say how many children they had ?

[Araminta]

No, it didn't. Perhaps Esther's will mention hers.

[spison]

Wonderful! Such a lot of family info when two days ago you had nothing. I love it when that happens!
Jane

[lynleyc]

Hi

You might also try looking at the Otago Nominal Index - searchable database of Otago people. It shows John Hill on the electoral roll in Port Chalmers from 1865.