Help with Aging Photographs

[strawberrymivvy]

Hi, I'd be grateful for any help anyone can give me with aging the following 2 pictures.

The couple are my 2 x great grandparents, Henry and Jane, born about 1850 and 1856 respectively.

The group shot is of the same family (though not necessarily the same people) outside their home.

I was considering whether if we assume the portrait was taken later, that the people pictured 2nd and 3rd from left in group shot could be the same couple. Any opinions?

Henry and Jane's children were born between 1875 and 1895, so I don't think too many, if any, of the other people in the group shot could be their own children. Possibly siblings, or even in the case of the woman on the far left, a mother?

I have no experience in dating photographs, and am spectacularly bad at guessing ages of people in them, so any help gratefully received...

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad360/strawberrymivvy/Family%20Tree/Kirsopp%20Pictures/kirsoppfamily.jpg

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad360/strawberrymivvy/Family%20Tree/Kirsopp%20Pictures/HenryWoodandJaneAnnKirsopp.jpg

[junedye64]

I also have no experience of guessing ages etc of old photos :nonod: but for what it's worth I do think that is the couple. There certainly is a resemblance.

June

[strawberrymivvy]

Good to have a second opinion June, I was fairly certain as regards him, unless he had a son who was the spitting image, but less sure about her. I would say the hairline is the same, but facially she's changed a fair bit.

[Mutley]

I am not good at guessing either but I have a wonderful book by Jayne Shrimpton and she is very good at giving clues.

My first thoughts are that (second photo) the man's whiskers are grey, if he was born in 1856, I doubt he would turn grey before the 1890s and the clothes seem to fit with that. Her hairstyle, her sleeves, his tie and turned down collar, all Edwardian in looks. Though it could even be in the early 1900s as I think his collar looks like it has pointed edges rather than the rounded edges of a few years earlier.

Just a thought, when did they marry?
Could it have been an anniversary photo to celebrate 20 or 25 years?

[strawberrymivvy]

Great idea Mutley, they married in 1872 so that could fit with either 20 or 25 years I guess.

It's such a privilege to get hold of these pictures, then so frustrating when we can't pin down people, places or dates...

[Mutley]

I would guess that it is the same couple as in the first shot. Less greyer and less portly! In fact he could be wearing the same suit. :smile5:

I can only throw very late 1870s to 1880s in the the pot. The men are in suits and ties. The youngsters have the bows at the neck. The far left lady has an earlier hairstyle with the centre parting but old ladies did tend to stick to what they knew and were still using the style in the 1870s and beyond.

Their child born 1875, was it a girl? If so, that could be her seated at maybe 10 to 15 years. That would make it 1885 to 1890 and I think 1890 would be the latest.

How was this photo taken, on what type of paper, glass, tin?

[strawberrymivvy]

Yes, their eldest 2 children were both girls, born 1875 and 1879. I would agree that only the youngest girl is likely to be their daughter. I did wonder if the girl on far right was the eldest, followed by the one sitting, but I feel there's more than 4 years between those two, and the one standing seems to have some sort of "relationship" to the man with her, which was why I wondered maybe sibling with spouse.

Unfortunately I don't have the original photo to say how it was taken, and neither does the person who sent it to me.

[Hugh Thompson]

Hi there Strawberrymivvy, I've put them together for comparison.
Hugh.
http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/hughpics2008/Comparisonpic.jpg

[Hugh Thompson]

And lightened them up a bit.
Hugh.
http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/hughpics2008/HenryWoodandJaneAnnKirsopp.jpg

[Hugh Thompson]

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/hughpics2008/kirsoppfamily.jpg

[strawberrymivvy]

Thanks for that Hugh, great idea to put the images together for comparison. I think I'm veering towards the chap being a definite match, still not 100% sure on the woman, but there are similarities with hairline and shape of mouth.

Now if only I could magically identify all the other people...:smilewinkgrin:

[Mutley]

Thanks for that Hugh, great idea to put the images together for comparison. I think I'm veering towards the chap being a definite match, still not 100% sure on the woman, but there are similarities with hairline and shape of mouth.

Now if only I could magically identify all the other people...:smilewinkgrin:

Thanks to Hugh's magic, I am sure the woman is the same one. Look at the downward slope to the right side of her eye, it is on both. Also the bottom of the cheek is very pronounced on both ladies, it is almost like a scar from the right side of her nose curving down.

I also think that it is possible the two girls could be sisters with four years between them. As you do not know who the man is beside the elder girl there is a chance he could be an 'intended' and not related, thus standing slightly aside.

I wonder if the two older ladies are his mother and her mother?

Fascinating!

Now if Hugh could put the two girls heads beside each other and the old mothers beside their possible son and daughter.....

Shut up Mutt, what is the saying about impossible and miracles :lol:

[Hugh Thompson]

You're a devil Mutley.
Hugh.
http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/hughpics2008/kirsoppfamily-1.jpg

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/hughpics2008/Copyofkirsoppfamily.jpg

[strawberrymivvy]

Hey Mutley, what else do you think we could dare Hugh to do?!

Seriously Hugh, thanks for this

[Hugh Thompson]

You're welcome.
Hugh.

[Waitabit]

Does anyone else see a resemblance between the two captured children above & the Woman in the doorway, Nose shape, eyebrows, small face? Perhaps the woman is Sister to the Gt.G'Father Henry.

[junedye64]

Waitabit, I had already thought there was a like ness between those three.

Glad you put it into words.

June

[Waitabit]

June,we're either as blind as each other or something better .:)

[junedye64]

No question about it. We're something better.:smartass:

June

[strawberrymivvy]

Now as I've already said, I'm worse than useless at gauging ages, are we thinking sister rather than mother to Henry for the woman in the doorway? His mother was 28 when she had him

[junedye64]

I don't think she is as old as she looks. When you look at the two women on the left they are quite stern with their hands in front of them.

The two on the doorway are kind of posing with their hands behind them as younger women would do.

Anyone agree. :iagree:

June

[Mutley]

The older lady in the doorway certainly seems to have a wicked grin and she is wearing earrings, I think?

The two girls are both wearing large bows at the neck, the sort normally used to tie on a bonnet but they do not seem to be wearing head-ware. I am sure those bows mean something, certainly the white one, it is very distinctive. It may help with a better date for the photo. She also seems to have a large protruding left ear? I thought she was a boy at first and had to check she was wearing a skirt.

From the devil in disguise :smile5:
Any chance of a closer look at the ear?

[Waitabit]

First glance I also thought boy for the Lass with the white cravat/collar. made me think of things Legal..Clerical..Collegial etc. but if it's just a pretty lace collar, well over to you Mutley. It certainly stands out on the rest of her rather dark & serious outfit.
The chappy next to her does have the stance of an 'intended' (or a Father)& their close proximity give an air of familiarity for want of a better word.

June, yes I agree about the positions, & those near the door seem to be a step back in importance to the Gt.Gparents, tho' I did wonder if the extreme outside Man & Woman were a couple.

So easy to let the mind gallop away.

[Mutley]

First glance I also thought boy for the Lass with the white cravat/collar. made me think of things Legal..Clerical..Collegial etc. but if it's just a pretty lace collar, well over to you Mutley. It certainly stands out on the rest of her rather dark & serious outfit.

So easy to let the mind gallop away.

I also wondered about religious orders, they all look so austere. Quakers, Legion, Mormons etc but I tried google and could not see anything similar. The lace collar was called a 'jabot'.

As you say,
"So easy to let the mind gallop away."

[strawberrymivvy]

Thanks everyone for all your help, I think I will make certain assumptions, say about the 2 younger women, to give me an idea on date of photo, and I will also assume the couple in each photo are the same pair.

If anyone comes up with anything else, I wait with baited breath...