Old roads.

[A Lee]

My Grandfather was born in Turtle Road, Wandsworth in 1921.

His mother was born in in Watson Street, Edmonton,Hornsey in 1894.

Neither of these roads seem to exist anymore and I'm not a Londoner. Does anyone know anything about them? Did anything infamous happen on them? Anyone know anyone who also lived on them?

[Fulhamster]

My Grandfather was born in Turtle Road, Wandsworth in 1921.

His mother was born in in Watson Street, Edmonton,Hornsey in 1894.

Neither of these roads seem to exist anymore and I'm not a Londoner. Does anyone know anything about them? Did anything infamous happen on them? Anyone know anyone who also lived on them?

Dear A Lee,
I do not recognise the Wandsworth road name but perhaps this site may be of help to you.

http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/Home/LeisureandTourism/Museum/mushistory.htm

I do hope so.

[Ken Boyce]

Based on the excellent Kelly's 1938 London Directory (http://www.parishchest.com/en-gb/dept_686.html)published on CD by Archive CD Books as reference and which should be in any serious London researcher's library

Turtle Rd was off of Garratt Lane near Summerstown.
and was located between Siward Rd and Maskell Rd. All of which are clearly shown on todays map.

Watson St
The first thing to note is your ref cannot be a postal address as Edmonton and Hornsey are seperated districts some distance apart. It seems more likely to be the Civil Reg District which makes the location fall within the coverage area of the Kelly's Middlesex Directories and unfortunately I don't have a Directory with a Street Directory. (there is/was a Watson St in Stoke Newington which is in North London some distance south of Edmonton and is unlikely to be the one of interest)

We should be searching for a Watson St in Hornsey

Using the advance search features of the 1881 Census returns A Watson St in Hornsey of some 30 residences. Neighbourhood streets are Mathias Rd, Philips Rd, Winson Rd, and Spencer Rd.I was unable to manuially locate this cluster of streets on a modern map

Regards

[A Lee]

Thanks for the responses, ken and fulhamster. Yes, you're right ken, it is Hornsey. I've taken the details off a birth certificate, don't really know the London area. And I get confused between, district and civil registration etc...

[Colin Moretti]

Hello

A good place to search for streets that no longer exist is
http://members.aol.com/WHall95037/london.html

Colin

[Rod Neep]

The "bible" for this subject is this one:

"Lists of Streets & Places within the Administrative County of London"

Invaluable to London researchers this book details alterations in street names and numbering since 1856 and shows localities, postal districts, parishes, boroughs map references.

The book's introduction states that this is a second revision of the original 1901 edition and a new feature is the addition of notes on the origins of street names given in recent years. The number of streets in the County of London at the time numbered 17,660

And it is available on CD from Archive CD Books (http://www.parishchest.com/en-gb/dept_686.html).

[Ken Boyce]

Re my earlier posting and the street cluster obtained from the 1881

I have now ascertained the location of these roads including Watson St and they were indeed all in Stoke Newington They were close to Goldsmith Sq which was renamed Mathias Sq and are all listed in the 1938 Kelly's (don't browse postwar London without it!) Watson was located off of Mathias Rd both still exist today (look for the junction of Green Lanes with Albion just south of Clissold Park) as do other roads in the cluster altough it would need extra work to show if these are the same streets as those listed in 1881 and 1938.

The reason that they are listed as Hornsey in the Census is because there was an anomaly in the civil registation system and there existed a Hornsey enclave seperated from the main Hornsey Civil Reg Dist. Just to complicate the situation even more Hornsey and the enclave are in the Civil Reg County of Middlesex whereas Stoke Newington is in the Hackney Reg Dist of the Civil Reg County of London

[A Lee]

Thanks for that Colin, Rod and Ken. I shall now be able to put these into context. It is my understanding that this area of London was very poor. Is that correct?

I am in the process of looking through the Wandsworth website, but it would be good to find a Londoner who's family has been there for some generations who knows a bit of the history first hand!

Cheers

[Ken Boyce]

It is my understanding that this area of London was very poor. Is that correct?


I am not knowledgable in the social structure of the area but from the Directories, maps and Censuses, I think in regard to Stoke Newington the above generalization would likely give a very false impression. In the 1880/90's the area would likely be a thriving suburb with a mixture of business, professional. trades, middle class and yes some poor.

I suggest you Google for the Booth 1889 London map and papers and also for the Stanford 1862 map of London

Regards

[Ken Boyce]

What a fine and vivid followup. I was able to follow part of the route on the 1915 ed of the Godfrey Map of the area which by that time was likely changed. The Godfrey maps are of sufficient scale to show each house in a street and there are 1864 and 1894eds of the same map.

The area covered by the description is a tiny fraction of the south end of Stoke Newington It would be interesting to follow the same route on the 1881, 1891, and 1901 censuses and see how many families/residence no of rooms/family, occupations etc, to see how this stacks against the Booth observations

Regards

[A Lee]

Thank you all for your responses. I am being referred to some most interesting resources! It only goes to show you only need to know where to look.