View Full Version : My black sheep, James Warren
27-07-2010, 8:33 AM
My GG grandfather, James Warren born 1808 in Mitcham, Surrey, England was transported for life to Van Dieman's Land (Tasmania) in December 1829, arriving in Tasmania in April 1830 having sailed on the 'Mary'. I don't have a great deal of information on him other than he was a Trade Print Engraver. His crimes were for stealing geese, money and other things. He served six months in Brixton. What I would really like to know is about his background in England, such as his date of birth (or baptism date), parents names and siblings names and dates of their birth.
I know that he married Mary Ann Carr in Tasmania on the 26 January 1835.
I noticed that on board the 'Mary', there were three other Warrens. John, George and Robert. Maybe these were brothers (or related some way) and I think that Robert more particularly could be related as he was charged on the same day in October 1829 as James Warren and perhaps they were together when the particular crime was committed.
Can anybody help me locate the details I'm looking for? Just the smallest bit of information would be wonderful.
I live in Australia and have tried to find as much as I can on line but this has been as far as I have been able to go. Fortunately, I have found some relatives on the other side of the country who are also looking, so it would be a great to help to the other two relatives as well.
Thanking you in anticipation.
27-07-2010, 11:10 PM
You were unlucky. One of my Tassie convicts had his father named in his conduct report. Apart from getting the actual trial where it may or may not be mentioned, my only suggestions would be to try Ancestry to see if the court records (not sure what they're called) show the men being convicted together - which I think you've already done. They may be cousins. George and James both stole geese. It does seem that there may be a connection. If it was me I'd start looking at the LDS site around Surry to see if I could find baptisms for these men and see what turned up and work from there. My policy is to 'worry them to death'. It might take ages but it's often worth it. Think how good you'll feel when you find the link - especially if it does take ages.
Good luck. Hopefully someone in England may have some other suggestions.
27-07-2010, 11:35 PM
You seem to have gathered quite a bit of information, it was probably not an 'easy task'.
Before I go 'a hunting', please could you let us know the source of the birth in Mitcham in 1808?
I did have a quick look at the criminal registers and I thought it said John was also convicted on the same day, 20 Oct 1829.
28-07-2010, 12:24 AM
Thought it might be useful to ask if these are the correct individuals and their conduct records?
(Hopefully it's ok to post links to the Tasmanian archives on this board.)
James Warren convicted on 29 Oct 1829 at Surrey for stealing geese
John Warren convicted on 29 Oct 1829 at Surrey for stealing linen
George Warren, convicted on 30 Mar 1829 at Surrey for burglary/housebreaking
Robert Warren convicted on 22 Oct 1829 at Sussex for stealing bread
On Ancestry there is a criminal register page showing a James Warren and a John Warren, both tried on the same date - Oct 1829 at the Surrey Assizes. However, from the Tasmanian records it looks like they were involved in different crimes.
Perhaps you could email the Surrey archives and ask if they have any other prisoner records for James Warren. I once found a criminal register on Ancestry for one of my ancestors and then found a slightly more detailed prisoner record at the local archives.
28-07-2010, 12:40 AM
I cannot see any reason why the links cannot be given, they are not asking for money or selling stuff. :wink5:
Fascinating reading is it not?
I could not see anything for your James on the Old Bailey Online, have you looked there?
The criminal record of HO 11/7 at the National Archives does mention him but, sorry, I do not know how to send for those records, they are not online.
28-07-2010, 12:52 AM
Yes - it is fascinating reading. I've got a couple of Swing Rioter convict ancestors listed on those Tasmanian Records. Both bad characters apparently. :chris:
Anyway, I'm not sure these Warrens are related.
The convict descriptions record their trade and where they are from. Can't quite make out some of it. Perhaps someone else could translate the bits I can't.
Says he is a Paint Engraver.
From Mitcham, Surrey
Robert Warren (description is on the opposite page to James)
From Livanage?, Hants
Groom and ? Servant
28-07-2010, 1:09 AM
I think Robert Warren, Plasterer, comes from Swanage. In those days it was in Hampshire (Hants) but is now in Dorset. The records are a compulsive read.
28-07-2010, 3:46 AM
Many thanks to everyone who has contributed in helping me regarding James Warren (and the other Warrens). I first received the information regarding his birth area from a relative a couple of years ago and only received that via a third party as I don't know the relative concerned. However, it looks like Mitcham, Surrey may be correct as per Olliecat's message.
I'll try all your suggestions and hope I can find something which I'm sure also that it will take some time to do.
Just something I've thought about in the last day or so : I wonder if my Grandmother and Mother knew of their grandfther and great grandfather's past? I never found out about it myself until a couple of years ago!!!!
28-07-2010, 10:41 PM
I think we know more about our ancestors than they or their families actually knew themselves.
(seeing as many of them could not read and those that could, did not have the beneifit of ther internet) :wink:
03-08-2010, 9:16 AM
Hi everyone - just to let you know that I have written to the Surrey County Council to see if they can help me somehow to see
the parish records around 1808 for James Warren. Will let you know what their response and/or assistance will be. There is a
five working day wait.
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