Registers for death at sea

[EL1570]

I recall that the Family Record Centre used to hold various 'specialist' registers - adoptions, death at sea, etc ( on the ground floor at Myddleton Street, 'beyond' the 'usual' racks of death registers. Can anyone advise where these - or microform or online - versions of these can now be found, please ?
(I am looking specifically for a death said to be 'shipping 1990')
Many thanks
Peter

[Degan]

Peter - I beleive find my past have got overseas BMD but I'm not sure what dates they go from and to.
Degan

[Kerrywood]

The indices that used to be at the Family Records Centre relate to records held by the GRO in Southport. As Degan says, the indices of Deaths at Sea are online at Findmypast (under GRO Marine Deaths), but only up to 1965.

I think deaths at sea after 1965 are included in the standard GRO Overseas Deaths indices. These are also at Findmypast (under GRO Deaths Abroad 1966-1994). Worth a try?

[Peter Goodey]

Kerrywood has covered the position regarding 1990 deaths.

Anyone else who reads this and is looking for an earlier event at sea (back in genealogical times. you might say), should note that it's not totally straightforward.

There's a National Archives Research Guide (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=246) and there's also the book Tracing Births, Deaths and Marriages at Sea by CT and MJ Watts which I believe you can buy from Parish Chest.

[EL1570]

Many thanks for the help with this --- I had seen the Marine Deaths as only to the mid 1960s, but had not realised that the 'Overseas' since that time might also include deaths that happened at sea. It is not helped by the person having a Polish name, a Jewish name and an English name !! It will 'keep me busy' hunting :-) Peter

[EL1570]

To all who helped with this -- many thanks for your help - as a result the right certificate has now been obtained -- for those who have never seen one, it includes details of the ship and shipping line, together with the latitude and longitude where the vessel was at the time of death, as well as the age and occupation of the deceased -- and their 'normal address' (thus confirming that it is the 'right one'). Peter

[Kerrywood]

the right certificate has now been obtained
Good news, Peter! Thanks for the update. :smile5:

[notanotherminer]

To all who helped with this -- many thanks for your help - as a result the right certificate has now been obtained -- for those who have never seen one, it includes details of the ship and shipping line, together with the latitude and longitude where the vessel was at the time of death, as well as the age and occupation of the deceased -- and their 'normal address' (thus confirming that it is the 'right one'). Peter

I'd like to add my own question to this thread.

My gt.gt. grandfather John Race drowned at sea while serving as 3rd engineer onboard SS Cadiz.

Some years ago I was able to visit TNA and I obtained a copy of the appropriate page from BT153 "Register of Accounts of Wages and Effects of Deceased Seamen" which listed his death.

His entry in this register was fairly informative giving his name, ship, ship's official number, rating (how I learned he was 3rd engineer) his age (39 although this was wrong -he was 34) date of death (15 Oct 1879), cause of death (drowned) and his effects (£1/8s/4d).

I have never been able to get his death certificate because it isn't included in ordinary death indexes.

However because of the advice given to Peter on this thread I've just found this entry on FMP

Race John 39 Cadiz 201

How do I now apply to the GRO for his death certificate with just that ref. No. 201?

For many years now I've been curious to know where he died and (hopefully) the circumstances that caused him to drown so I really want to obtain this certificate

I've just spent some time looking through the research guide that Peter Goodey supplied a link to but it merely tells you which BT Registers contain the information and not how to order anything

[Kerrywood]

Race John 39 Cadiz 201

How do I now apply to the GRO for his death certificate with just that ref. No. 201?

Use the GRO's order form for Overseas Deaths, which is very flexible as to what data can be entered.

Just enter everything you have in the appropriate boxes (name, year of death, age, place). When asked for the GRO reference, enter Marine Deaths 1846-1902, 201. It should work. :wink5:

[notanotherminer]

Thanks Kerrywood. I'll do that and let you know if it went OK before I go to bed

[notanotherminer]

I've just ordered it now and as it didn't come up to state incorrect reference I assume there'll be no problem.

They have my phone number if there are problems but hopefully there won't be.

I've just worked out that it was about 1996 that I found his record at The National Archives so getting his death certificate has been a long time in coming!

[notanotherminer]

After going away for the weekend my wife and I arrived back in Dewsbury to find that John Race's Death Certificate had arrived.

Unfortunately it provided no information other than that I knew already. The Box marked Place is blank. I was rather hoping that it would tell me whereabouts in the world the SS Cadiz was when he drowned and also any circumstances surrounding his death.

I suppose now I'll never know

[Peter Goodey]

I suppose now I'll never know

I don't know about that. If I were you I would see what the book that I've already recommended has to say. If you don't want to buy it, there are libraries.

Your man was an officer, wasn't he? I seem to recall that I found the place of death of one of my people in BT 139 (indexed on BT 141). Might be worth trying.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=3&CATID=1610&SearchInit=4&SearchType=6&CATREF=bt+139

[notanotherminer]

I don't know about that. If I were you I would see what the book that I've already recommended has to say. If you don't want to buy it, there are libraries.

Your man was an officer, wasn't he? I seem to recall that I found the place of death of one of my people in BT 139 (indexed on BT 141). Might be worth trying.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=3&CATID=1610&SearchInit=4&SearchType=6&CATREF=bt+139

Thanks Peter

I've played around with the NA search engine but It's not finding any results. Basically I entered John Race dates 1872-1880 within reference BT 139 and there were no matches. I got the same result when I searched within BT141.

The book you recommended sounds a worthy investment and I'll take a look at that with a view to ordering it. I noticed that there are other records which relate specifically to Engineers within the Merchant Navy (records of competence etc) which would hopefully be well referenced within the book

[Peter Goodey]

I've played around with the NA search engine but It's not finding any results. Basically I entered John Race dates 1872-1880 within reference BT 139 and there were no matches. I got the same result when I searched within BT141.

The records are not on line. Someone would have to go in person and search.

[notanotherminer]

The records are not on line. Someone would have to go in person and search.

In that case I shall add this to an already rather long list of "things to look up at Kew".

We plan on going to the next WDYTYA so it's likely we'll stay around London for an extra couple of days so I can visit TNA.

Thanks again Peter