Russian Jew

[welshsue]

Hi
I have spent the last 4 months trying to locate information on my gt grand dad.

He first appears in the Uk 1891 census, as a 19 year old lodger from Russia.

I stronly beleive that he had relatives in the Manchester area, but nothing proven.

Name Lazarus Kelman, I have tried hundreds of passenger lists but found nothing.

We the family have always known that he was a Russian Jew.

Any help advice much appreciated

I have not found any record of his naturalisation!!

Many thanks

welshsue

[susan-w]

Don’t know if this is of any help.

My Jewish grandmother came from Russia, at about the same time as Lazarus, with the rest of the family.

It is her father, Isaac Simblist, who was naturalised, rather than his children (even though some of them were adults). I’ve not followed up this line yet, so I don’t know if his naturalisation certificate includes family members etc. Maybe Lazarus’s father is in the index???

Susan

[Geoffers]

The National Archives' (TNA) website has many online guides, one is to naturalisation:
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=242

I believe that the records are searchable using TNA's catalogue.
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp

Enter the surname in field 1 and in field 3, try the code 'HO' (for Home Office, TNA holds naturalisation records in HO334). You may need to try several variant spellings of a surname.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[uksearch]

I can't see any KELMAN's in Manchester other than those of Scottish origin in 1891.


UK

[welshsue]

Thank you all for your input, it is very much appreciated.

I have tried so many different angles on Lazarus, as times I wonder if I will ever get any closer.

I had noticed on one 1890passenger list to USA there was a Meyer Kelman, that was the only one.

I don't know if this is true, but someone told me that quite often more than one person travelled on a passport, could this be true?

Susan, I think it would be brilliant if there was a connection, but as I said we have no names of the family.
What is strange is that we know Lazarus was living in Manchester upuntil 1901.
When his sons were old enough, they left home and went to live in Manchester leaving their father in Wales, I do think there is a connection in Manchester also Doncaster.
Many thanks

Sue

[susan-w]

Sue, I was meaning that you should look at TNA site for other Kelman naturalisations, and investigate those people. They might be related to your Kelman (allowing for name variations).

I noticed there are at least a couple. Even though the naturalisations are much later, they are worth investigating. My relative didn't become naturalised until many years after he entered the country.

Another Sue!

[Wirral]

Try the 1901 census. I found only one Kelman (Isaac) in Manchester, but nearly everyone on his street comes from Russia
RG13/3448 page 89 folio 160. He was an 18 year old visitor at 11 Cliff Street. I looked up & down a few pages & it was the same - about 85% from Russia. With so many in such a small area, there may well have been a Russian Orthodox Church in the area. Also, many may be inter-related, possibly to your family. There may even be descendents of Russians still in this part of Manchester.
Liverpool had an area known as "Little Italy", perhaps Manchester had "Little Russia"?

[uksearch]

There has been a Polish & Russian Jewish population in Manchester for over 150 years and maybe more.

UK

[Colin Moretti]

Hello welshsue

Apparently the Chief Rabbi's Office hold case files and certificates of evidence for much of the 19th & 20th centuries. The latter were required to authorise marriages and contain details of the applicants age and place of birth. Contact the Chief Rabbi's Office, Adler House, 735 High Road, North Finchley, London, N12 0US.

If you want to read further on the subject of immigration records I can recommend Immigrants and Aliens by Kershaw and Pearsall, published by The National Archives; I'm sure that your local library would be able to get a copy for you.

Good luck with your research

Colin

[welshsue]

Thank you all for your input, it is very much appreciated.

I will go to my local libarary and dig out that book, as think it will be interesting reading.

I have gone through loads of naturilastion papers even up to the year he died but nothing.

This is just a little hic cup!!! will get there eventually!

Once again thank you all for your advice
Sue

[lyndy]

hi i have been reading your thread i wonder if you could help me im trying to find out where to look for any records relating to my gt gr dad he was russian and he married a polish girl they were both jews and settled in manchester they married in 1866 i just dont know where to look for naturalisation records

[Colin Moretti]

Naturalisation records are held at The National Archives (TNA); you can search the catalogue for the records here: http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/default.asp, just click on "Search the catalogue" and enter the surnames in the "Word or phrase" box. All the naturalisation records have been catalogued but don't be surprised if you don't find an entry, generally speaking only the wealthiest people bothered at that time, it was an expensive process and only of value if you had property to pass on to children.

If you type naturalisation in the search box you will find links to a number of TNA leaflets that might be helpful to you.

Good luck

Colin

[DebbieAnn]

I found a marriage record for Lazarus Kelman in June quarter 1901 in Aberystwyth, Cardiganshire. Bride would have been either Mary Davies or Mary Agnes Glithero. Does this ring any bells?

The register office is at: Swyddfar Sir, Marine Terrace, Aberystwyth, SY23 2DE.
Tel: 01970 633580.

Perhaps if this is your Lazarus the marriage certificate will reveal more information about his origins (perhaps his father's name).

Debbie

[lyndy]

thankyou for your help

[welshsue]

Debbie Ann and everyone else

Well quite a few months have gone by!! and sorry to say I have no other information on Lazarus Kelman.

Yes he did marry Mary Agnus Glithero, and I did purchase the wedding certificate, it states born Russia and father;s name was also Lazarus, nothing else.

From elderly relatives they said that he always went to Manchester for seceral months at a time, and as I said his sons left Wales in their teens and moved to Manchester where I don't know or with whom?

Hopefully one day I might solve this little mystery!!

Thanks to all for your advice and input

regards
welshsue

[DebbieAnn]

Does the marriage certificate list his occupation? That might help, actually...

And what is his age at marriage listed as? It may be slightly off from the census record... knowing this would also help...

Debbie

[DebbieAnn]

I have found what MAY be your Lazarus in the 1901 census. He is listed as a 'Fur Traveller' - which I assume means he was a fur salesman?? He and a fellow 'fur traveller' named Max Kerrna were visiters at a hotel run by Michael John Lawless and family in Bangor, Caernarvonshire, Wales. Both he and Max are listed as Russian subjects. Max is 17, his name is mistranscribed as Mar; Lazarus is listed as 26, and his name is misspelled as Kaltman. He is still single at this point. A third 'fur traveller', 27-yr-old Patrick McHoan, who is from Durham, U.K. is also at the hotel. The record can be found at: RG13; Piece: 5279; Folio: 6; Page: 3.

Debbie

[DebbieAnn]

There is a Lazarus Kelman (mistranscribed Kalman) in the 1911 Canada census. He was born in Russia in January of 1873. His religion is Jewish. He is a men's tailor, and his nearest neighbor is a fur trader. Perhaps he sewed fur garments? He is married to a Russian woman named Leah, and there is a son Harry, born Jan. 1902 in Russia. Perhaps he was her son from a previous marriage? Lazarus immigrated to Canada in 1904, Leah and Harry in 1906. Daughters Lily, born Feb 1907, and Eve born July 1910 were both born in Ontario. A cousin, Isaac Kollis born Aug 1887 in Russia, is living with them. He is also Jewish. They are living in Toronto, Ontario.

Might he have come to Canada? Do you know when Mary died? Is it possible he moved between Canada, Wales, England, and Russia, and had a second wife?

Debbie

[welshsue]

DebbieAnn

Many thanks for your input, and must admit has made me think!!

Lazarus married in 1901 in Wales, where he and his wife raised a family.

All throught the marriage he was often away, sometimes for several months at a time selling men's suit material.

On his marriage certificate it states fathers name also Lazarus and his occupation a Farmer, but no mention of Russia though!!

Prior to the marriage Lazarus changed his religon to become a Catholic.

An elderly relative, she is his daughter who will be 98 in December says that she remembers finding paperwork or book with Poland on in her father's drawer many many years ago.

If I am correct in saying, wasn't Poland part of Russia back then ?

Lazarus spent a lot of time in Manchester, where two of his sons went to live there in their teens.

Lazarus died in Wales in 1936