Lillian Glover

[FrancesLithgow]

My sister and I are trying to find her grandmother, Lillian Glover, who we believe was born in 1888. No mention of her in any of the family certificates, so we have no idea who her parents were or where she was born. She had a son, Clive Glover, in 1911 in Sydney. Then in 1927 married Thomas H. Barrett. No mention of her after his death in 1954.

[colashbury]

Hi Frances, can you not give an area where you think that she was born or have you know clue at all. Was it England. Did she marry here. Does she have any siblings. There are so many, it could be any of them. Did she die here or Australia....

[spison]

Hi Frances,
How helpful was the marriage certificate between her and Thomas Barrett? Did it offer any clues?
Jane

[christanel]

Her marriage certificate 7109/1927 Petersham Registration district) to Thomas H Barrett in 1927 should give you some clues as to her parent's names. It can be ordered from http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=births
Her son Clive's birth cannot be accessed on line. You would have to visit a BDM registry to enquire about that.

[FrancesLithgow]

Thank you all, but we've already looked at every certificate we can find, and nothing has been helpful so far. Her son Clive has his grandparents as his parents on BDM. And we've searched the NLA pages till our eyes are spinning. The Glover family is well documented everywhere, but nothing about Lillie's birth. Never mind. Just means more searching.

[CassieK]

Information on a Marriage certificate in NSW includes the bride's age a place of birth and names of the parents of both the bride and groom.

Do you have Lillian's 1927 marriage certificate? You appear to know her parents with your reference to
Clive has his grandparents as his parents on BDM

There are many reasons for a birth not being registered. What are Lillian's parents' names? Perhaps Lillian was illegitimate and raised by her grandparents and thought they were her parents.

In NSW you have to option of using the services of an accredited transcription agent. Transcriptions are considerably cheaper than a certified certificate - the information is the same. Ideal for family history research.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToSearch.htm#TranscriptionAgent

Cassie

[FrancesLithgow]

Thanks, everyone. I think we're going to have to go with what's on Lillie's wedding certificate to Thomas Barrett. If she was illegitimate, it would have been one of those deep dark secrets that was never spoken of, so we'll probably never know. Same as we'll never know who Clive's father was.

[christanel]

Her son Clive has his grandparents as his parents on BDM. .

Hi Frances,
So who's parents are these? His mother's? His father's?

[Bess]

Hello Frances
Can you give all ther information you have from BDM certificates please, and anything else. If you are selective, and only give the information that is left over after you have accounted for it as leading nowhere, then we have even less to go on than you have. "...we believe was born in 1888"...what is the souce of this possible birth year?. If the parent's names on Clive's birth cert. are incorrect, then you must have some other source that connects Lillian and Clive as mother and son - what is that source?. What is on the 1927 marriage cert. - church, witnesses, occupation....everything is useful. We need at least the information that you have if you would like to add to it.

Bess

[Waitabit]

Frances, did you look into the Electoral Rolls? I believe I've found Lillian Barrett in 1930 in Sydenham Marrickville if her Husband was Thomas Hall Barrett - a Bootmaker. 1933 - Petersham....1937 -Petersham.
Coincidently a CLive Wilson Glover - Journalist- also lived in Petersham around those times.

[Nicolina]

have you tried searching for CLOVER? My Clover/Glover family have lead me a merry dance. In Yorkshire they were CLOVER but in Nottinghamshire they appear as GLOVER and they kept moving backwards and forwards between the two counties.

[Waitabit]

Does the birth of Lillian G. Glover 1888 - to William S. & Matilda at Waterloo help?. I see you haven't put a 2nd initial & there is another Lilian G(Getrude) Glover in the Electoral Rolls.
I keyed in births 1885 - 1890.
Can you say what the G'parents names are on 'Clives' birth certificate?

did young Clive stay in NSW?

[CassieK]

There are many requests on the net including

Clive Wilson GLOVER (born about 1910) married Trelvia Desma ZIEGELER in c1935 in Sydney NSW Australia. They divorced around 1944, ..

Our family is looking for Clive Wilson GLOVER, born around 1912 in Sydney. His parents were George Glover and Lillian WILSON. ...

CLIVE WILSON GLOVER married TRELVIA DESMA ZIEGELE. John Glover b 1801. Graham, 17/06/2008 19:42:37, 16. Im trying to find the birthplace, and place of dea ...

And a cert from NSW bdms stating there is no registration for a Lilian GLOVER born to a George and Susan GLOVER between 1883 and 1893.

Do you have the birth certificate for Clive Wilson GLOVER in 1911? or are you taking your information from his death certificate?

15794/1947
GLOVER Clive Wilson
Father George Mother Susan
District North Sydney

I see the marriage of George and Susan WILSON in 1875 and eight births including one for a Clive W who died as an infant. The period between 1885 to 1891 had no birth registered and it would appear that Lillian's birth was simply not registered.

Do you have George or Susan's death certificates? If known to the informant, all children both living and deceased should be detailed.

The electoral rolls will give you Lilian and husband Thomas Hall BARRETT and Clive Wilson with each wife and post 1947 both wives and 2nd husbands.


Cheers
Cando

[CassieK]

Is this Lillian's death? Born c1887

15998/1958
BARRETT Lillian 71 years Paddington
District Sydney

I wonder who gave the information for her death as they obviously didn't know the names of her parent's so no joy there.

Would like to see all the details on all the certificates you hold if you could type them up and post please.

Cassie

[CassieK]

There is no father listed on Clive's birth registration in 1911. Perhaps he was raised by his grandparents or told that his grandparents were his parents.

Birth
43911/1911
GLOVER Clive
No father detailed Mother Lillian
District Paddington.

Cassie

[Waitabit]

Good show Cassie:
Birth ..43911/1911..GLOVER Clive ..No father detailed Mother Lillian..District Paddington.

frances did say his G'Parents were shown on his birth cert.:

Her son Clive has his grandparents as his parents on BDM. And we've searched the NLA pages till our eyes are spinning.

No Wilson mentioned tho' perhaps that was another chap.

[judyg]

Her son Clive has his grandparents as his parents on BDM. And we've searched the NLA pages till our eyes are spinning

I cant' help wondering if she is referring to his DEATH cert rather than his BIRTH cert. The only way to sort it out is to purchase certificates. I would start with her marriage to Thomas Hall Barrett and see who she names as her father.

Cheers
Judyg

[FrancesLithgow]

Thanks everyone. We have looked into all the above suggestions. Clive Glover (whose middle name was not Wilson - he just gave that name to himself) was married to our mother Trelvia Desma, then they divorced and he married Laurie Litchfield. His mother was Lillian Glover, and it's her parents who are down as his parents on his death certificate. Lillian is on his birth certificate, with a blank for his father.
My sister is today going to the Electoral Office to see if she can find out anything.
No more suggestions for a while, please, till we see if we can find more at this end in Sydney. Thank you again.

[CassieK]

The Australian Commonwealth and State electoral rolls are online to 1954 [not all years] and it would appear that a couple of us have access to the subscription based website. I or another forum member could type them up for you, if you wish.

You need to visit the State Library not the Electoral Office to search older rolls.

Information about the electoral rolls 1903 - 1989 at the State Library of NSW
http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/research_guides/indigenous/instructions/elec_rolls_1903_1989.html

Cassie

[FrancesLithgow]

Again, thanks to everyone for your suggestions, which we've followed up. Still no joy. We tend to think Lillie might have been the child of one of the daughters of the family, and everything was hushed up. Anyway, we'll keep looking.

[Telou]

Hi FrancisLithgow, I am new at this but I saw that you had transcribed a section of the sydney morning herald from 1937 (from the governement website which seems to chronicle Australian newspapers) which mentions Lillian Barrett in the "Ín Divoirce" section. The divroce they were referring to was Coleman vs Coleman. The colemans were my grandmother's adoptive parents and my mother said that her mother spoke of an Aunty Lillie who she thinks was married to grandmothers father after his divorce from his wife Harriet. Is this the same Lillian you have been searching for and if so may I know what you may know about her and Ernest Coleman just out of interest. My grandmothers parents divroced when she was in her teens and I don't think she had much contact with him post divorce though she always remembered him fondly. Any info would be of interest.

[Waitabit]

Hello Telou & welcome in. what a lovely day this has been with two new arrivals bringing with them news for others queries. What a good way to start a new venture for you.
Try this link (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?49433-Quick-guide-to-posting) for some helpful hints on postings, above all, enjoy.:)

[FrancesLithgow]

Thank you,Telou. I've sent you a private message. It's definitely the right family. We're narrowing down the search, and think we might have found Lillie's mother near Maitland NSW.