Walker - Jones of Moxley, please help

[dave.smith76]

Trying to find the parents of my Grandfather and Grandmother. I have their marriage certificate: - Alfred Walker age 24 married to Mary Ann Jones age 21 at All Saints Church, Moxley on 31 March 1918. Fathers shown as William Henry Walker (dec'd) profession Stoker, and Edmund Jones, Iron Plate Worker. Alfred's residence at time of marriage was 1 back of 8, Darlaston Road, Moxley and Mary Ann's as 13 Fleet Street, Bilston.
I have checked freebmd for possible births and marriages of both fathers but drawn a blank.
Can anyone please give me some pointers. I don't live in the midlands any more so unable to get access to local records.

[Lizzy9]

I think I've found Mary Ann with her family in 1911.

Jones family.

Edmund 41 Iron Plate Worker born Bilston. Married 14 years
Caroline 33 Birmingham
Mary Ann 13 Bilston
Florence 6 Bilston
George 4 Bilston
Louisa 3 Bilston
Albert 2 Bilston

RG14PN17116 RG78PN1054 RD369 SD7 ED5 SN178 (Crown copyright, in care of TNA)

Residing: 4, 12 Court, Temple Street, Bilston

[Lizzy9]

Marriages Wolverhampton, Jul-Sept 1897.

Edmund Jones and on the same indexed page Caroline Kennard, vol 6b, page 801.

[Lizzy9]

What was Alfred's occupation, please?

[pattenwalsh]

I presume you are asking because you have also spotted an Alfred at RG14. PN17349. SN78 as a nut and bolt facer

[dave.smith76]

Thanks everyone for this info. I can now try to trace back even earlier on Mary Ann's side.
Alfred's occupation shown on his marriage certificate is 'Caster'. Not sure exactly what this involved but it sounds like it was something to do with the Iron making industry

[Jan1954]

Alfred's occupation shown on his marriage certificate is 'Caster'. From the Index of Old Ocupations:

Caster/Castorer: Made small bottles for sprinkling salt, pepper, sugar etc.

However, if his background is in the iron industry, then I would have thought that he could have been an Iron Caster. I wonder why it was not written in full......

Edit: There is some lovely information about iron casting on this website: metalwebnews.com/howto/furnace1/cast-iron.html - put www. in front

[dave.smith76]

Sorry to appear a bit thick but what does the RG, PN, RD, SD, ED and SN numbers relate to?

[Jan1954]

Hello Dave - you do not appear at all thick. If you do not know the answer to something, then ask away. |hug|

Have a read of this thread (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?40344-Recording-Reference-Numbers-1911) and all should become clear.

[bibliojunkie]

You are not thick Dave. They are the reference numbers for entries on the 1911 census. Initially, I was puzzled by the letters because the format was not the same as in previous census returns. Does anyone know why the change and why the references are so long?

Ah, thanks for the explanation Jan.

Ali

[dave.smith76]

Thanks for your links Jan, things are much clearer now. As for the profession of a 'Caster' being someone who makes small bottles, I wasn't aware of the industry being big in that part of the country, I always beleived that the iron industry was one of the biggest employers in that region. Maybe he was an Iron Caster, the compiler of the marriage record may well have taken the 'iron' reference for granted.

[Keyboard86]

I presume you are asking because you have also spotted an Alfred at RG14. PN17349. SN78 as a nut and bolt facer

Hi in your original post you stated that Alfred was residing at Darlaston Road Moxley, the 1911 ref given states he is living with his married Grandmother Louisa aged 61 born Burcot (Bromsgrove) Worcestershire at 3, Darlaston Road Moxley, he is born at Toll End Tipton Staffs, on the 1891 Louisa herself was living in Toll End Road Tipton with her husband William and family.

Hope this helps.

Keyboard86

[Lizzy9]

Hi in your original post you stated that Alfred was residing at Darlaston Road Moxley, the 1911 ref given states he is living with his married Grandmother Louisa aged 61 born Burcot (Bromsgrove) Worcestershire at 3, Darlaston Road Moxley, he is born at Toll End Tipton Staffs, on the 1891 Louisa herself was living in Toll End Road Tipton with her husband William and family.

Hope this helps.

Keyboard86

And, Louisa's husband, William (1891) is a coal miner labourer.

My bedtime, but after looking at this family and tracing back, initially, it's maybe the case William had two marriages. I had searched for your family and found the 1891 which Keyboard found, and had also tried to trace back from there - the only William and co which sort of fitted had a wife named Mary Ann, however I haven't had time to investigate this further. Maybe someone else will pick it up.............if not, I'll try my best tomorrow.

[Keyboard86]

And, Louisa's husband, William (1891) is a coal miner labourer.

My bedtime, but after looking at this family and tracing back, initially, it's maybe the case William had two marriages. I had searched for your family and found the 1891 which Keyboard found, and had also tried to trace back from there - the only William and co which sort of fitted had a wife named Mary Ann, however I haven't had time to investigate this further. Maybe someone else will pick it up.............if not, I'll try my best tomorrow.

Hi again, this has kept me engrossed for the best part of the night!

So that we can eliminate or not the relationship of the Alfred on the 1911, the Census return for 1901 you found is the same Alfred I believe (RG13/2689/24/16). I traced Louisa back to the 1881 where along with other children they have a William born 1873 in Dudley Worcs (RG11/2878/52/15)
In 1891 he is with his Grandmother Mary Atkins occupation Manure dealer! (RG12/2295/55/16) I believe it is possible he died in Dec 1893 in Dudley aged 20, so is it feasable that not only did he change occupations before he died, and also fathered a child born 1894?

I do not know the answer, but hopefully others will take a look and search the truth out for you!

Keyboard86

[Waitabit]

In 1889 a William Walker married a Louisa Claxton Taylor Wolverhampton.

Several Mary ann Walkers deaths reg'd between 1881 - 1891.

A Louisa C. Taylor unmarried aged 35 b.Wisbeach is on 1881 census, dom.servant to Mr Thomas Hunt... Tamworth St. Lichfield.
Perhaps completey unrelated people. Sorry must away.

[RobinC]

Hello Dave,

Are you aware of any siblings for Alfred as I've found this family who were living in Bilston in 1901:

William Walker 65 Unknown
Louisa Walker 59 Dudley, Staffordshire
Tom Walker 21 Dudley, Staffordshire
Annie Walker 13 Dudley, Staffordshire
Ada Walker 12 Dudley, Staffordshire
Alfred Walker 7 Moxley, Staffordshire

The only trouble is that William's occupation is "horse driver for hawker".

[Waitabit]

Peoples occupations must have changed as they grew older, or were not required any longer,or perhaps moved.

[dave.smith76]

Hi Keyboard86. Thanks to you and Lizzy9 and indeed anyone else for showing your interest in this, most grateful.
Your explaination makes sense, their age differences and the addressess match up. Unfortunately I do not know much about Alfred, my mother never talked about her family much. All I do know is that my mother whose name was Florence Mary, born in 1928, had a brother named Eddie or Edmund and a sister named Minnie although I believe that she came from a large family so there could be more Uncles and Aunts.

[RobinC]

Here's the same family in 1891:

William Walker 46
Louisa Walker 40
Helen Walker 15
Thomas Walker 11
Louisa Walker 9
Alice Walker 7
Florence Walker 5
Ann Walker 3
Ada Walker 2
Minnie Walker 6/12

William's occupation on this census is "Mine labourer"

Family in 1881:

William Walker 35
Louesia Walker 29
William Walker 8
Mary Elizth. Walker 7
Ellen Selina Walker 4
Richard Walker 3
Thomas Walker 1

William's occupation is "General labourer"

I don't think this is the correct family now?

[RobinC]

Hi Keyboard86. Thanks to you and Lizzy9 and indeed anyone else for showing your interest in this, most grateful.
Your explaination makes sense, their age differences and the addressess match up. Unfortunately I do not know much about Alfred, my mother never talked about her family much. All I do know is that my mother whose name was Florence Mary, born in 1928, had a brother named Eddie or Edmund and a sister named Minnie although I believe that she came from a large family so there could be more Uncles and Aunts.

The family I've found fit in with your idea of a large family but the occupation of Alfred's father in this family doesn't match the occupation of a stoker.