Can't find Birth or Father

[TreeChaser]

Hi everyone, just a quick one..

My great-grandfather doesn't have a father on his marriage certificate and I can't seem to find him anywhere on the birth indexes..

Does anyone have any ideas how I'm going to find out anything, we don't even know his mothers name.

Apologies if I'm asking in the wrong section.

[busyglen]

Lack of a father's name usually means that the child was illegitimate. I have the same with my Gt. Gt. Grandfather.

Do you know how old he was when he married? If so, you could try looking for his name on the BMDs registers to see if you can find any clues. If you want to give us a name, someone might be able to help, but we would need to know an area, and an age if possible.

Glenys

[TreeChaser]

He died in 1968 aged 63 meaning he was born around 1905. We think he was born in the Manchester area his name was Leonard Macdonald (But was Mcdonald on his army certificates)

Thanks so much for replying.

[busyglen]

There are 3 Leonard McDonald born around 1905 on FreeBMD.

One is Leonard McDonald, March Qtr. 1905 10a 839, South Shields. The other two are in the wrong sort of area.

I have to go now, but will have another look later if I have time, under MacDonald.

Glenys

[Peter Goodey]

There are several possibilities in the GRO indexes, for example...

Births Jun 1903
McDonald Leonard Stockport 8a 23
Births Mar 1904
McDonald Leonard Chorlton 8c 855
Births Sep 1908
McDonald Leonard Wigan 8c 91
Births Dec 1910
MACDONALD Leonard Chorlton 8c 848

Have you chased up any of these? I would order a general search with a check on there being no father's name.

Have you had any luck with the 1911 census?

What are the army certificates you mentioned?

[TreeChaser]

The only luck I had with the 1911 census was a Leonard Mcdonald in Manchester aged 7 INMATE at the THE MANCHESTER AND SALFORD HOME FOR INFANTS.
I've tried to research this place but no one seems to have any records & we have one of his photoalbums & it has a picture of a man saying Uncle next to it, so I'm sumising(SP) that he knew his family.

Thank you for replying.

[Peter Goodey]

Leonard Mcdonald in Manchester aged 7 INMATE at the THE MANCHESTER AND SALFORD HOME FOR INFANTS.

So presumably you've got a birthplace from the census so you should be in a position to be more selective in getting the birth certificate. You should be able to forge ahead now.

[TreeChaser]

For where born it says Manchester, so I'm guessing the Leonard Mcdonald in the Gro Indexes for 1904 Chorlton is the one, so I've just ordered the birth certificate to have a look at. And if there is no father I'm guessing it's him, if I'm thinking the right way.

[Peter Goodey]

I wouldn't try and guess which is the right one. I'd let GRO do the work in finding it. Usually works out cheaper that way.

[TreeChaser]

Silly question..but how would I let GRO find it for me??

[Peter Goodey]

MANCHESTER AND SALFORD HOME FOR INFANTS

Is that the same as the Manchester & Salford Boys & Girls Refuges and Homes?

If so, there is contact information for family history research here -

togethertrust.org.uk/togethertrust/archive_research.php?area=togethertrust&s1=6 (put www. in front)

[TreeChaser]

I've been intouch with the together trust & this is what they replied with a couple of months ago:
"I’ve just checked our records and unfortunately we didn’t have anyone of that name in our care. We have a few Macdonald’s and McDonald’s around that time but none with the christian name Leonard. I’m sorry I could not be of more assistance."

So I have no clue where to go, Manchester Library have no records of it either.

[TreeChaser]

UPDATE:: Well got the birth certificate for Births Mar 1904
McDonald Leonard Chorlton 8c 855

No father on the birth certificate, mothers Name is Louie Mcdonald a toy dealer assistant, but now I've found 2 Louie's on the GRO indexes, one was called Louie Mcdonald born about 1886 and the other is Louie Macdonald 1883 both born in Manchester, anyone have any ideas how to find out which is the correct one??

[Mutley]

Try checking them out on the census, you may be able to eliminate one or the other.

There is a Louie Macdonald age 17 living as a servant (nurse domestic) in 1901. Born 1884 in Manchester. She is with the Thompson family in Cheshire.
RG13/3326/150/11 (TNA Crown Copyright)

[Mutley]

Possibility for the other one in 1901 is Louie McDonald the daughter of James. She was born 1886 in Manchester and is living in Hulme/Chorlton. Siblings are Emily and Catherine.
RG13/3706/134/10 (TNA Crown Copyright)

I was hoping one would be a Toy Dealer's Assistant :(

[susan-y]

On the 1911 census there is a Louie McDonald, born 1887, age 24 , born in manchester. She is single and living and working as a barmaid at the George and Dragon Hotel in Ashton Under Lyne, Lancashire. She seems rather young to have had a child in 1904..... Think I shall look some more.

I wonder if the father's last name might be Chorlton?

Sue

[susan-y]

Forget my 2nd thought!:redface: I see Chorlton is a place, not part of his name.
I also noticed on the original census page that another little one was put on the census then scratched out because they "died before midnight", so maybe it was a hospital as well?

(:nonod:Went to edit as the edit symbol was still there, but it said time was up...)

Sue

[susan-y]

I am taking back my red face There were alot of young men with the surname Chorlton in the Manchester area... I'm falling asleep on my keyboard so I didn't compare addresses but I did compare names on the 1901 census...... Louie could have known any or many:wink5:
::leaving: sue

[TreeChaser]

Its all very confusing haha!" I was thinking it was the Louie Mcdonald aged 15 in 1901 census who was still living with her father and 2 sisters, as she would have had my great grandfather at 18, which could be the reason he was in a home/fostered later on, but I don't know how I can find out more info about both women to rule one of them out.

oooooo & thanks for replying Mutley & susan-y

[Mutley]

As I said, you need to follow them through the census, a birth certificate alone would not confirm Louie as the mother of your Leonard. They are not easy to find in 1891 even with James being born in Ireland. Bear in mind that Louie could be short for Louise or similar.

There is a Louisa Macdonald born in Manchester in 1886 living with her widowed grandmother Ann Price in Hulme. If James was recently widowed then the children could have been split up.

This is going to be a long haul of eliminations. Sorry :(

[TreeChaser]

Thanks Mutley, gonna have a good dig around, any sites or pages to suggest to help me?

[TreeChaser]

I've been looking in the 1891 census for the following names but none have got anything close to what I'm looking for

Louie Mcdonald
Louie Macdonald
Louis Mcdonald
Louis Macdonald
Louise Mcdonald
Louise Macdonald
Louisa Mcdonald
Louisa Macdonald

Names are coming up for them but none of the fathers are called James.....Any ideas???

[susan-y]

Just stopped in for a quick look....
Try Lou.... or tick so the varients show

Sue

[TreeChaser]

Hi again Sue

tried Lou Mcdonald & nothing at all comes up for it, dont have a clue where to look now

emma.

[Waitabit]

I can't get into censuses this morning yet, however, 'Lou' may have been born in Scotland or elsewhere & come to Lancashire alone or with Family. Pregnancy doesn't always respect the age of the female concerned & a variety of reasons may have led to the child being raised away from it's Mother. FreeBMd gives a good selection on Mc..Mac Donalds births for Lou* between 1885-1889. Could be even earlier. Leonards birth may not have been Manchester ,as you say it's 'thought' he was born there. Don't mean to sound pessImistic, just show there's many places still to look. Lots of hope still to have. :)

[TreeChaser]

Thanks Waitabit,

Still looking into it!" :D