Orphans going to Canada circa 1914

[RobinC]

I have recently been in touch with the nephew-in-law of my great-grandfather who has said that my great-grandfather and 5 of his siblings were sent to Canada as orphans after their mother died in 1910 and their father was unable to care for them (I think the reason was active service during WWI).

I've looked on Ancestry and have found out that my great-grandfather and his brother served in the Canadian Army from 1918 onwards and that my great-grandfather returned to England with his family in 1937.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[Procat]

Depending on what you after FindMyPast has outward shipping lists. Canadian Passenger Lists can be found here (http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/passenger/index-e.html). 1911 Canadian census can be found here (http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/).

[RobinC]

There seems to be a contrast in information as I had no knowledge of my great-grandfather emigrating as an orphan but it appears that he may have.

I also think that my great-grandmother was born and raised in England and her parents were from Norfolk but my relative thinks she was from Canada due to her having a strong Canadian accent. I recall my grandmother having a fairly strong accent despite only being there for 14 years in total which is the same length of time that I believe her mother was also there.

I've just looked at the passenger list search engine and don't know any of the information it asks for!

[Procat]

What are the details of the kids who emigrated to Canada. Do you know if they went as a group?

[RobinC]

The children would have been:
Thomas William Witherell born 1897
Alfred Richard Witherell born 1899
Amelia Witherell born 1901
Richard Witherell born 1902
Ida Rosina Witherell born 1906
James Witherell born 1908

The surname may be spelled as Witherall.

I don't know if they went as a group or individually as I wasn't aware that they were sent abroad.

[Procat]

There is a Thomas Witherell, Age 14, Departed 26 June 1912 on the ROYAL EDWARD from Bristol bound for Quebec, Canada, Occupation farm Labourer

Alfred Wetherell, Age 14, Departed 5 August 1913 on the TUNISIAN from Liverpool bound for Quebec, Canada, Occupation not recorded

Amelia Wetherall, Age 13, Departed 13 May 1914 on the VIRGINIAN from Liverpool bound for Quebec, Canada, Occupation not recorded

[RobinC]

Thank you Procat,

These results are certainly possibles for my relatives, I'll have a look at them.

[Waitabit]

This may be one of yours Robin, click here (http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.02-e.php?image_url=http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc018/679930a.gif&id_nbr=325539) concerning Alfred Witherell b. Fullham England 1899.

[RobinC]

Hi Waitabit,

I believe that to be the same Alfred Richard, I found that on Ancestry and it seems more probable with Amelia being the next of kin.

Procat,

I looked at the passenger lists again to try to find the original images for Thomas, Alfred & Anelia but can't seem to find them.

[Procat]

Procat,

I looked at the passenger lists again to try to find the original images for Thomas, Alfred & Anelia but can't seem to find them.

Hi Robin,

I got the information from FindMyPast. They show nothing more than what I transcribed unfortunately.

[RobinC]

I've just had a look for Ida, James & Richard but they haven't shown up!

[Procat]

FMP may have loaded all the records that are still available but from my own research I know they are not complete. Other possibilities are that the surname is so badly recorded that you would need a lot of wild card searching to find them or perhaps they did not all go to Canada.

[RobinC]

Would it be possible to see if a Hannah Lily Pitcher was born in Canada (around 1897)?

[Procat]

Not on FMP - it is a British site. The information I found was for outgoing passengers.

I have never researched Canadian BMD records. I think we need an experienced Canadian researcher to drop in.

[Waitabit]

Have a look here (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tweetybirdgenealogy/hcpasslist.html)

Scroll down to find both Alfred & Richard. Check out the others on lists, you may find more. I chose the years Procat gave.

Sorry, gave wrong URL before edit.

[Procat]

Robin, this (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?25635-Canadian-Resources-Online) thread may be helpful if you have not already seen it.

[RobinC]

I might be stupid but I can't see Alfred or Richard on the link you posted above.

[Procat]

Have a look here (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tweetybirdgenealogy/hcpasslist.html)

Scroll down to find both Alfred & Richard. Check out the others on lists, you may find more. I chose the years Procat gave.

Sorry, gave wrong URL before edit.

Ah, an example of where the indexing has gone awry. Richard is recorded as Richard WELHERELL (age 12) on FMP. And looking at the original page I can see why. And he is much further down the page from Alfred which is why I did not pick him up.

Robin, the link Wendy provided is indexes of the ships. You have to click on the name of the ship to see transcriptions of the passengers lists.

[RobinC]

I've found the list Wendy was pointing me towards. I wonder if Ida & James are on lists which have been lost or damaged!

[RobinC]

Can anyone with a sub on FMP look up this person on passenger lists:

PITCHER Unknown F 1907 Liverpool Canada Montreal

I'm wondering if Hannah Lily Pitcher could be her or with her in 1907

[Procat]

I've found the list Wendy was pointing me towards. I wonder if Ida & James are on lists which have been lost or damaged!

Possibly - or so mistranscribed on the FMP indexes they will be difficult to find. You could try trawling through all the ships on the site Wendy gave you for the appropriate time frame.

[RobinC]

I've looked through the passenger lists on the relevant dates and found Amelia, she went to Stratford, Ontario.

[AdeleE]

Library & Archives Canada has an excellent searchable database of Home Children, compiled by the British Isles Family History Society of Greater Ottawa:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/home-children/001015-100.02-e.php?PHPSESSID=m7758p1mlscsq2d5out3vnf5p6

There are two searches available, Immigration Records Search & Board of Guardians Search. To maximize your results, type w*t*ll in the surname search box.

I see Alfred, Richard & Amelia as results on the Board of Guardians search & several possiblities on the immigration records search.

[Procat]

Can anyone with a sub on FMP look up this person on passenger lists:

PITCHER Unknown F 1907 Liverpool Canada Montreal

I'm wondering if Hannah Lily Pitcher could be her or with her in 1907

If that is the one on the VIRGINIAN she is recorded as Mrs Pitcher travelling with Mr F H Pitcher.

[Procat]

I've looked through the passenger lists on the relevant dates and found Amelia, she went to Stratford, Ontario.

Which year and which ship? I can try to find her on FMP

[RobinC]

If that is the one on the VIRGINIAN she is recorded as Mrs Pitcher travelling with Mr F H Pitcher.

I don't know which ship as I could only find what I pasted.

I've just received information that the orphanage was at 9 Parsons Green and looking at the record that Adele has found, it seems that a Miss Macpherson is listed as the sending agency for Alfred, Richard & Amelia, it also states hey were taken in to care by Fulham.

Does anyone know of an orphanage at Parsons Green in Fulham?

[RobinC]

Which year and which ship? I can try to find her on FMP

The Virginian on 21st May 1914. Listed as Wetherall.

[Procat]

The Virginian on 21st May 1914. Listed as Wetherall.

Departed Liverpool on 13 May 1914, Amelia Wetherall, age 13 - i have no idea what they have indexed her surname as.

[Mary Anne]

The children would have been:
Thomas William Witherell born 1897
Alfred Richard Witherell born 1899
Amelia Witherell born 1901
Richard Witherell born 1902
Ida Rosina Witherell born 1906
James Witherell born 1908

The surname may be spelled as Witherall.

I don't know if they went as a group or individually as I wasn't aware that they were sent abroad.

RobinC

Send this informaiton in an email to the queries email address at the British Isles Family History Society of Greater Ottawa (hint - the URL is made up of the initials). Your enquiry can be passed on the the Society's Home Children researcher and he will see what additional information he can find for you. Be as detailed as you can about the information you KNOW already (birth dates, birthplaces, etc).

In the meantime, if you Google "Miss Macpherson Home Children" you will get a site called "Young Immigrants to Canad" that explains Annie Macpherson's role in juvenile emigration. She had a home in Belleville, Ontario called Marchmont to which she sent children who were waiting to be placed with families in Ontario. Have a good look also at the Tweetiebird site that someone else posted here - it has lots of information about Home Children.

Mary Anne

[RobinC]

Thank you Mary Anne.

I've emailed the BIFHSGO so I'll see if I get any information back from them.

[RobinC]

Linking vaguely to this subject, would it be possible for someone to try to locate Thomas William Witherell (born Willesden, London, England on 20th July 1897) on the 1911 Canadian census as I believe he may have been out there due to his mother dying in 1910.

He doesn't appear to be on the 1911 UK census.

[Waitabit]

Robin, I had a look this morning but didn't find him.

http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/

He may have been in a home in UK waiting for travel or just not listed in the year after his Mothers death as seems to have happened to many others.
Maybe they were between areas in care. I thought I'd found him on electoral rolls but it turned out to be his Father.

How did you fare with BIFHSGO?

[Mary Anne]

RobinC

If I'm not mistaken, Procat found him (see post #6 in this thread):

"There is a Thomas Witherell, Age 14, Departed 26 June 1912 on the ROYAL EDWARD from Bristol bound for Quebec, Canada, Occupation farm Labourer"

So, this would mean he wasn't in Canada in 1911 for the census.


Mary Anne

[Waitabit]

I saw that Mary Anne, I wonder why the children left from different ends of UK? Perhaps to do with shipping avaiability & the home they were in.

[RobinC]

I saw Procat's discovery of Thomas but the occupation of farm labourer threw me a bit as he was born in Willesden, Middlesex which is not far away from Bloomsbury or Marylebone (going by tube stations) so I'm not sure if there would have been many farms there 100 years ago.

It may well be, that as Waitabit pointed out, that he was missed off the census.

[RobinC]

I wrote to BIFHSGO and received several replies which were quite informative but I will post snippets which are relevant:


Alfred, Richard and Amelia came through the Fulham Union


Thomas and Alfred, served in WW1. For Alfred, Amelia was the NOK, as Mrs. McGee in Lorne, Ontario


Alfred Witherell aged 21, farmer, of Leamington, born England, Church of England, son of Thomas William Witherell and Amelia Stratford married Grace May Wall aged 18, spinster of Aylmer, Baptist, daughter of John Wall and Synthia Perry, on 3 April 1920 at Aylmer, Elgin County, Ontario


I checked the military files for Thomas and Alfred today, both were in the Canadian Army Medical Corps, Thomas spent all of his time in England while Alfred enlisted very late in WW1 and was sent to Siberia in 1919.

In Alfred's file was his death date - 16 June 1979 in Windsor, Ontario. I looked at the Windsor and Leamington newspapers but could find no obituary - of course he may have moved away, in 1923 he was living in Kincardine, Ontario.

In 1921 Thomas' address was given as 33 Talbot Grove, Notting Hill, London, W11. He sailed from Halifax on the SS Justicia 25 June 1917 and gave his father as his NOK: T.W. Witherell(Sapper) Royal Engineers with the British Navy.

He attested in Amherstburg, Ontario 4 May 1917. On enlistment it says his right index finger had been amputated at the lower joint. He said that if killed or wounded inform his friend Mr. Stanley Beacon of Leamington, Ontario.


In 1923 Alfred's address was RR#2, Kincardine, Ontario. His NOK was his sister Amelia Witherell, RR#1 Lorne, Ontario, c/o Mrs. McGee. He enlisted 25 May 1918 at Windsor, Ontario, embarked in Vancouver on the SS Protesilaus 26 Dec. 1918 and arrived in Siberia 15 Jan. 1919, he worked at the Gomostoi Hospital, Vladivostok, embarked back to Canada on the SS Monteagle 21 April 1919

And this is from Barnardos:


I can confirm that Thomas was not emigrated to Canada with Annie Macpherson. However, his siblings Amelia, Alfred and Richard were.

For more information on the entry on the National Archives for Tom Witherall going to Canada you will need to contact them at 395 Wellington Street, Ottawa, Ontario, K1A 0N3.

[Waitabit]

In 1921 Thomas' address was given as 33 Talbot Grove, Notting Hill, London, W11. He sailed from Halifax on the SS Justicia 25 June 1917 and gave his father as his NOK: T.W. Witherell(Sapper) Royal Engineers with the British Navy.

In 1918/19 this address was the one I found, later proved to be that of the Father Tom William Witherell who joined up in 1915 aged 37 N O K? a ward of.....as he gave the 33 Talbot Grove address on his attestation.

In 1920 there was another Thomas William Wetherill living with Thomas william Wetherill & Mary Wetherill in grosvenor st. Tower Hamlets. All made things more difficult to find your laddie later.

He could also have been placed to train in farming techniques between 1910 & his leaving of UK. Bye, how hard things could be in times of duress.

[RobinC]

Is that "A. Ward of...." or "a ward of...."?

If it's the former than I have not come across anyone who I can link to the family with that name.

[edwardtjones]

Hello Robin. Have you tried Families of British Home Children/ British Child Migrants. They have a forum on facebook, its very active, they have access to records. They are in touch with lots of relatives of people sent to canada. I am a Barnardo boy, My name was on a list to go to Canada in 1947, A sister i never knew existed contacted me then and changed the course of my life.

[susan-y]

I saw Procat's discovery of Thomas but the occupation of farm labourer threw me a bit as he was born in Willesden, Middlesex which is not far away from Bloomsbury or Marylebone (going by tube stations) so I'm not sure if there would have been many farms there 100 years ago.

It may well be, that as Waitabit pointed out, that he was missed off the census.

Robin

I think you will find most children sent to Canada were sent as Farm labourers..... it was the farmers who needed the help and it didn't matter where they were brought up.

Sue

[RobinC]

Thank you Sue,

That would explain why he was listed as a farm labourer.

As stated above he wasn't sent to Canada by Miss Macpherson, like his siblings were, so the question is which organisation arranged his transportation?

[Waitabit]

Is that "A. Ward of...." or "a ward of...."?
If it's the former than I have not come across anyone who I can link to the family with that name.

Your pardon Robin, am not seeing things very well lately, shall stop looking at stuff I can't see.
what I saw was in reference to his two younger children James & Ida Rosina as NOK with their guardians - the Fulham Board at 39 Fulham Palace Road London.

[Waitabit]

Couldn't resist a last look in UK 1911 census, didn't find Thomas jnr but all of his sibs line up at 9 Parsons Green Fulham. Hennikeer House used as a receiving home for Fulham guardian cchildren. How sad that ALL were marked as 'birthplace unknown!" No Ida but may have been listed as Ada aged 5.
signed by Miss J.A,Marlow.Julia alice.

Cover page has Mrs E.Broadway- Jubilee training home for Girls.

[Mary Anne]

RobinC

Sue is right - domestics and farm labourers were wanted in Canada at the time, and most Home Children were described as going to Canada to serve in these positions. Indeed, the families they were settled with were chosen on this basis. Even though the iconic Canadian book, "Anne of Green Gables," was ostensibly about a Canadian-born child, it did, quite accurately, describe the situations that the Home Children found themselves in when placed with Canadian families.

If the children were housed in the Fulham Union (Workhouse), then they may have been sent by another organization that operated in London (other than Annie MacPherson). What you have to remember is that there were many organizations for juvenile emigration that were operating in England during this period. Most of them no longer exist, and, sadly, their records no longer exist. SOMETIMES the passenger lists that are available to us now (and upon which the main Home Children database is largely based) did indicate which organization sent the children -- but as often as not, they did not.

You may wish to got to the Library and Archives Canada website for "Passenger Lists 1865-1965" and look up the ship Thomas came on, and the date he came, and have a look at the scanned pages to see if you can find his particular entry (unfortunately you can't just enter in his name). Then you can see what precisely was noted on the passenger list next to his name, although the person from BIFHSGO who corresponded with you could tell you -- and in fact has probably told you as much information as there is to be found. He is pretty much the main expert in Canada on these records. You may wish to write back to him to see if he can give you any further insight into what other organization may have sent Thomas, other than Annie MacPherson's.


Mary Anne

[RobinC]

This may be one of yours Robin, click here (http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.02-e.php?image_url=http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc018/679930a.gif&id_nbr=325539) concerning Alfred Witherell b. Fullham England 1899.

Going back to this post, I have looked at Thomas's attestation on the same website and it has his occupation as farm labourer so I think he is the Thomas that travelled from Bristol to Quebec in 1912. Unfortunately it doesn't explain where he was in 1911.

A while back, I found Thomas's papers from WWI but can't seem to find it now, the reason I'm looking for it is because he asked for someone called Stanley to be notified if anything happened but I can't remember Stanley's surname.

[Kerrywood]

If the children were housed in the Fulham Union (Workhouse), then they may have been sent by another organization that operated in London (other than Annie MacPherson). What you have to remember is that there were many organizations for juvenile emigration that were operating in England during this period.

Reviewing the thread briefly, I see you have had lots of valuable help and advice for searching the Canadian end.

But I can't see that anyone has suggested searching the records of the Fulham Board of Guardians? That would be the standard place to start, especially as some of the children have already been found in the Receiving Home (post #43).

The Fulham records are held at LMA (series FBG), and are plentiful. If you don't want to use the LMA's paid research service, you could go through them yourself easily enough on a visit.

[RobinC]

I've found some poor law records on Ancestry for Fulham but none of them cover the period I'm looking for:

Orders of removal
Fulham Palace Road Workhouse, 1889-1903
Fulham Palace Road Workhouse, 1892-1894
Fulham Palace Road Workhouse, 1896-1897
Settlement and Relief, 1845-1873

Register of children
Fulham Palace Road Workhouse, 1899
Schools and Children, 1885-1891
Schools and Children, 1887-1893
Schools and Children, 1899
Schools and Children, 1902-1904
Schools and Children, 1902-1905

Admissions and discharges
Fulham Palace Road Workhouse, 1873-1877
Fulham Palace Road Workhouse, 1890-1891

I'm wondering if the records I require aren't available any more.

[Kerrywood]

I've found some poor law records on Ancestry for Fulham but none of them cover the period I'm looking for:

I was aware of that. That's why I suggested you go and look at the records yourself.

I suggest you start with the Guardians' minute books. They're indexed, which will help speed up the search.

[RobinC]

I've found this record on the LMA site:

Title: Register of children emigrated
Reference Code: FBG/117
Parent Reference: FBG-9
Site Location: London Metropolitan Archives

But there's a spanner in the works:

Access Restrictions: Not available for general access

[RobinC]

How do I access the paid research service?

[Kerrywood]

I'm wondering if the records I require aren't available any more.

Ancestry is no guide as to whether records are available or not.

For many London poor law unions, they have only the tip of the iceberg.

As well as the Guardians' minutes suggested above, you may also want to look at these (depending on the children's circumstances):

Register of children boarded out 1896 - 1919
FBG/115/002

Register of children emigrated 1899 - 1928
FBG/117

Register of cases of children and adults in institutions and schools 1900 - 1911
FBG/119/001

Register of cases of children and adults in institutions and schools 1911 - 1920
FBG/119/002

Reports and applications of children at schools and homes 1907 - 1911
FBG/120


Access Restrictions: Not available for general access
That simply means that you have to consult the microfilm (in this case X114/476) rather than the original document.


How do I access the paid research service?

Please see here ...

www.
cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Leisure_and_culture/Records_and_archives/Family_Research/Family+History+Research+Service.htm

[RobinC]

Could this be Alfred in 1916?

Name: Alfred Wetherall
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Age: 18
Est. Birth Year: 1898
Birthplace: England
Year of Immigration: 1913
Home in 1916: 20, Last Mountain, Saskatchewan
Address: 27, 24, 2, Big Arm
Racial or Tribal Origin: English

Everything fits apart from the location but he was transported to Montreal in 1913 and attested in Leamington, Ontario in 1918 so could he have travelled to this area inbetween?

[Mary Anne]

Going back to this post, I have looked at Thomas's attestation on the same website and it has his occupation as farm labourer so I think he is the Thomas that travelled from Bristol to Quebec in 1912. Unfortunately it doesn't explain where he was in 1911.

A while back, I found Thomas's papers from WWI but can't seem to find it now, the reason I'm looking for it is because he asked for someone called Stanley to be notified if anything happened but I can't remember Stanley's surname.

RobinC

If you go back to post#36 where you quoted the info you got from BIFHSGO, you can see his surname - it was Stanley Beacon of Leamington.

Mary Anne

[Mary Anne]

Could this be Alfred in 1916?

Name: Alfred Wetherall
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Age: 18
Est. Birth Year: 1898
Birthplace: England
Year of Immigration: 1913
Home in 1916: 20, Last Mountain, Saskatchewan
Address: 27, 24, 2, Big Arm
Racial or Tribal Origin: English

Everything fits apart from the location but he was transported to Montreal in 1913 and attested in Leamington, Ontario in 1918 so could he have travelled to this area inbetween?

RobinC

I would think it very likely -- there were often harvest parties sent west during this time. Especially during WWI the farmers would be short-handed. The workers' way would be paid by the government or by the farmer in the destination location. The census was taken in June, so that could have been planting time there (rather than harvest). Looking at the census entry, it looks like he was a temporary resident to me, boarding with the farmer he was working for.

Based on the various tidbits, it looks like Thomas, Alfred and Amelia were all settled in the Leamington area of Ontario, and from the looks of things all in the rural part of that area. so, between 1912-1914 when they were settled, the boys may have either stayed there or gone west temporarily to help with the harvest/planting. Given that they both enlisted in Leamington (Thomas in 1917 and Alfred in 1918) it would seem they wanted to go overseas with their friends there. You can order copies of their entire Canadian Expeditionary Force files by writing to Library and Archives Canada and quoting the reference information given with their online Attestation Papers:

Name: WITHERELL, ALFRED; Regimental number(s): 2611922; Reference: RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 10512 - 9;Date of Birth: 17/03/1899

Name: WITHERELL, THOMAS WILLIAM; Regimental number(s): 529171; Reference: RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 10512 - 15; Date of Birth: 20/07/1897

To access the attestation papers and the requisition form and address to send to, you can go to the Library and Archives Canada website at collectionscanada dot ca and follow the trails to the Military>Soldiers of the First World War database, plug in their names -- above the accession information is a hot-link to the page about where you can obtain copies. LAC will accept a credit card request, and will send you the files - usually about $20-30CDN for each person's file, including copying and postage. The files will give you lots of extra info including what units they were with, when (you can follow their movements then in the War Diaries, also online at LAC) and when they returned to Canada and on what ships.

You can find the scans of the passenger lists at Library and Archives Canada site also, an although you cannot search by the person's name, you can search by the ship's name and the departure and arrival dates, so you should be able to find them all relatively easily, scrolling through the pages of each manifest.


Mary Anne

[Mary Anne]

I saw that Mary Anne, I wonder why the children left from different ends of UK? Perhaps to do with shipping avaiability & the home they were in.

Wendy, I meant to answer your question before, but am only just getting a chance to do some replies ... quite often children were sent for training before being brought to Canada. One of the places, for example, was the emigrant homes run by Middlemore, who was in Birmingham. Children were sent there from the Unions all over England. As for the shipping -- from what I've seen, Liverpool was the most common port of departure for Canada.

Mary Anne

[RobinC]

Thanks Mary Anne,

I couldn't see the woods for the trees so to speak.

Thomas spent all of his time in England and Alfred enlisted 25 May 1918 at Windsor, Ontario, embarked in Vancouver on the SS Protesilaus 26 Dec. 1918 and arrived in Siberia 15 Jan. 1919, he worked at the Gomostoi Hospital, Vladivostok, embarked back to Canada on the SS Monteagle 21 April 1919.

The above is from the information I quoted in post #36 and I can add that Thomas was treated for VD and gonorrhea at Camp Etchinghill, near Folkstone whilst in service, apparently this was a common occurrence.

[RobinC]

Googling Camp Etchinghill came up with this on a forum:


Canadian Hospital at Etchinghill 22/08/1916- 06/06/1919

Thomas attested on the 4th of May 1917 so it is possible that he wasn't fit to serve in France during the war.

[Waitabit]

Robin, I have enjoyed this trip, I hope for you it's been an enlightening experience. Between here & there so many things have happened & with them so many more branches to climb out on. Hope you're still climbing!

[RobinC]

I've managed to find out so much information from this thread so my thanks go out to everyone who had an input.

I still have a lot to find out and a trip to the LMA will hopefully provide the answers, I will have to set aside a day or two as I have more than one avenue to explore should I ever get there.

[Mary Anne]

Good luck, RobinC!


Mary Anne