1861 Census of Pendleton

[Jenjen]

Does anyone have the 1861 index to the Pendleton Census? If so would they kindly look up William, Mary and Thomas Edward Knowles. In 1871 William was dead and his family were at 22 Goddard Place, Seedley ward, St Paul's. It is possible that William was not at home in 1861 because he was a designer for calico printers ( journeyman) which I think means he moved from place to place.
Thank-you, thank-you to anyone who can help.

[John]

[QUOTE=Jenjen]It is possible that William was not at home in 1861 because he was a designer for calico printers ( journeyman) which I think means he moved from place to place.
QUOTE]

Hi Jenjen,
journeyman has nowt to do with travel. When a person, usually male, started in a trade, they began as an apprentice. They then hopefully completed their training and were free to work for any master, where they were in theory, employed by the day. Journei- a days work.
A man could work his whole life for one master but always be a journeyman.

John

[uksearch]

Here is what you are looking for.

RG9 2926 folio 45
3 Goodwin St,Salford
William KNOWLES..H..M..47..Sketch Maker to Calico Printer..Manchester
Mary..W..M..33..Salford
Thomas..S..2..Salford
Mary Hannah..D..2ms..Salford.

UK

[Jenjen]

you cannot imagine how thrilled I was this morning to read the replies to my posting. I cannot thank you all enough for the information.
Journeyman- how interesting. I assumed he did travel because I have 3 love cards written by him in 1847 where he talks about being away from his Mary. He had a fine hand and was clearly artistic. It is a puzzle why he did not marry his Mary until 1858. I have searched(albeit with some difficulty from Texas) for some record of William in the census so that I could search for his birth. Now you have given that to me. His father(Thomas) was the assistant postmaster in Manchester in the 1820's but that is all I know. As William was born around 1816 it may have been away from Manchester. My interest in Mary L Knowles( Grandaughter) at 57 Cross Lane is because Margaret Sheldon(grandmother) is William's mother in law. I am feeling that this Mary L must be daughter born out of wedlock. Now that I know they have a second daughter called Mary Hannah it becomes rather confusing. I think I may have gone on for too long! I am going to be in Lancashire in MAy and hope to look at this page. Can you tell me where and how to go straight to the source.
Thank-you thank-you.
Jenny

[Jenjen]

I have found a Margaret Hannah Knowles registered at Salford Regents Rd in 1861. Do you think the entry might say Marg? This would make a better fit as the maternal Gmother was called Margaret and there is this other Mary L Knowles( whom we assume was born out of wedlock) living with the grandmother.
I did not do a quick post with my other replies(being new to this site) and I wonder when they will show up?
Thanks message=I have found a Margaret Hannah Knowles registered at Salford Regents Rd in 1861. Do you think the entry might say Marg? This would make a better fit as the maternal Gmother was called Margaret and there is this other Mary L Knowles( whom we assume was born out of wedlock) living with the grandmother.
I did not do a quick post with my other replies(being new to this site) and I wonder when they will show up?
Thanks for your help. Jenny

[uksearch]

I found this listing in the 1830 Manchester and Salford Trade Directory(M&S TD).

KNOWLES Thomas,Clerk at Post Office,8 Paradise Hill,Salford.

UK

[Jenjen]

Thank-you. i have already been through the directories listed on the Leic. web site and the 1830 one which is on Ancestry. The postoffice site lists him as assistant postmaster. I cannot find any reference to Paradise Hill on the internet. Do you know where it was? Know nothing else about Thomas Knowles but hope to find him on the 1841 census. Hope he didn't die before 1837. I think there are some later directories.Are they available in the library. He was not listed in 1841
You are very kind to help me in my search.

[uksearch]

I have not been able to find her in the 1841 TD and therefore I have not been able to do a search for him in the 1841 Census.

UK

[Jenjen]

I wonder if you could search for Margaret Sheldon in the 1851 census of Salford. In an 1850 directory of Manchester and Salford she was at 57 Cross Lane At this time Mary( her daughter ) was not married to William and would have been at home with her mother(I assume). Mary L Knowles , if born in 1850, should be there with her. I have ordered two of the Salford census' but was unable to find 57 Cross Lane. There were a few houses on Cross Lane but not as many as I saw listed in the 1850 directory. I think the area is Regents Rd as that is where the first 2 childrenmessage=I wonder if you could search for Margaret Sheldon in the 1851 census of Salford. In an 1850 directory of Manchester and Salford she was at 57 Cross Lane At this time Mary( her daughter ) was not married to William and would have been at home with her mother(I assume). Mary L Knowles , if born in 1850, should be there with her. I have ordered two of the Salford census' but was unable to find 57 Cross Lane. There were a few houses on Cross Lane but not as many as I saw listed in the 1850 directory. I think the area is Regents Rd as that is where the first 2 children were born.
Your help is much appreciated.

Jenjen

[uksearch]

MCL only carries a small section of the Salford Census returns for certain years.I do not have (easy) access to the Regent Rd returns.However, I have checked the surname index for this area...there are only two SHELDON references.Film HO 107 2224 folios 105 and 459.

UK

[Jenjen]

Thank-you for checking the names and giving me the references. I see that Man. FHS has fiches of this census which were transcribed from the water damaged and never filmed census of 1851.
Do you know if you have to buy this or is it available elsewhere? Also as you have access to the index for 1851 could you please look up the Knowles name? I am pretty sure that William Knowles was out of the area. I have found Knowles who owned Calico Printing businesses(Tottington Mill is one) and wonder if William Knowles was apprenticed there?Thank-you
Jenjen

[uksearch]

Thank-you for checking the names and giving me the references. I see that Man. FHS has fiches of this census which were transcribed from the water damaged and never filmed census of 1851.
Do you know if you have to buy this or is it available elsewhere? Also as you have access to the index for 1851 could you please look up the Knowles name? I am pretty sure that William Knowles was out of the area. I have found Knowles who owned Calico Printing businesses(Tottington Mill is one) and wonder if William Knowles was apprenticed there?Thank-you
Jenjen


MCL has the fiche of the unfilmed section.I would guess that as M & LFHS produced the fiche they also would sell them.Details should be on their web site.I have access to the SURNAME index of the 1851 Manchester returns and aslo a small part of Salford (Regent Rd,Broughton and Pendleton I think....not sure without checking).Where is Tottington Mill?There are several Tottintons in England.If you mean the one near Bury,Lancs,I do not have (easy) access to that Census.

Cheers,

UK

[Jenjen]

I did a little research and discovered that there is now a CD of the regents Rd 1851 census in which they have, by new methods, extracted 98% of the original pages.
Tottington Mill was near Bury and was owned by Joshua Knowles. I have no link with our family but as they were Calico Printers and William was a designer for CP and away from home it may be worth looking into. There was also a Samuel K. and they were Calico printers too.

[birddog]

I have the 1851 water damaged returns for the salford wards and both of the families that you are looking for are in them.

The Knowles family are still living at 8 Paradise Hill, Greengate:

Letitia Knowles Head Widowed 73 House keeper Lancashire Colne
William Knowles Son un 38 Pattern Designer, Manchester
Mary Knowles Dau un 33 Manchester

The Sheldon Family are living on Cross Lane, Regent Road District. House has no number but is Shd 39:

Margaret Sheldon Head Widow 64 Formerly laundress Darbyshire
Edward Sheldon Son U 25 Plasterer etc. Lancashire Salford
Mary Sheldon Dau U 23 Shirt Maker, Lancashire Salford
Jane Sheldon Dau U 19 At Print Works, Lancashire Salford
Mary S Sheldon Dau U 1 , Lancashire Salford.

I would guess that the baby Mary S is an illegitimate daughter of one of Margaret's children.

Kindest Regards

Keith Byrne

[utilisada]

Hi Jenjen,

I have just had a new computer and can't get into a website I normally use as it is still on my old machine.

But, I seem to remember that 'journeyman' does not necessarily mean that a person travelled about - It just means that he was employed and paid by the day (from the french 'jour' meaning day).

I will check when I am properly 'up and running' again but I am sure this is correct.

Dea x

P.S. ........

Gottit !!

"Journeyman - A tradesman who has served his trade apprenticeship and mastered his craft, not bound to serve a master, but originally hired by the day. The name derives from the French for day - jour "

Dea x