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Stacyleigh
06-10-2009, 2:37 AM
I am trying to find information regarding my g grandfather Albert Dawdry.

He was born in March 1891. Address listed on birth certificate was 153 Odessia (?) Road Forest Gate, West Ham
In 1905 he was sent to Canada as a Home Child.

The name of the organization he was sent by was listed as Miss MacPherson's. I obtained records from Barnardo's which let me know he was sent from Bethnal Green Union School.

I would like to know if there is any way to find out his circumstances at the time of admission to the Union School. His Juvenile Inspection Reports indicate he asks about the welfare/ whereabouts of his sister "Nellie" however no information is ever produced. His military enrollment records into WW1 list "Nellie"- sister as his next of kin but her address is only listed as London, England.

Would the records of the union school indicate who "admitted" him there, where there might be a next of kin, the circumstances of his parents???


1. I have never been to England & am confused by the geography
2. I am also confused by the poor law union/ workhouses/ union schools even though I have read the information on workhouses. org.

|5cups|

PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!

Keyboard86
06-10-2009, 2:51 AM
Hi Staceyleigh just a quick adjustment to the address for you, it should have read ODESSA Road etc the road still exists in London E7

Best Regards
Keyboard86

Nicolina
06-10-2009, 3:03 AM
the 1901 Census has:
RG13/140/107 Page 38
24, Private House, Brounlow Mews, St Pancras
DAWDRY, Thos Head Married M 51 1850 Cabman b. Wymondham, Norfolk
DAWDRY, Maria Wife Married F 50 1851 b. St James, London
DAWDRY, Jane Daughter Married F 24 1877 Gunpowder Factory Worker b.
Bethnal Green, London
DAWDRY, Nellie Daughter Single F 16 1885 Gunpowder Factory Worker b. Holborn, London
DAWDRY, Thos Son Single M 18 1883 Horsekeeper b. Holborn, London
DAWDRY, John Son Single M 10 1891 b. Clerkenwell, London
DAWDRY, Emily Daughter Single F 12 1889 b. Clerkenwell, London

Nicolina
06-10-2009, 3:11 AM
taking it back to 1861 gives:
RG09/1223/42 Page 30
Middleton Street, Wymondham
DAWDRY, Charles J Head Married M 45 1816 Corn Merchant b. Wymondham, Norfolk
DAWDRY, Mary Ann Wife Married F 42 1819 b. Diss, Norfolk
DAWDRY, John B Son M 14 1847 Scholar b. Wymondham, Norfolk
DAWDRY, William B Son M 12 1849 Scholar b. Wymondham, Norfolk
DAWDRY, Thos M Son M 10 1851 Scholar b. Wymondham, Norfolk
DAWDRY, Fred W Son M 8 1853 Scholar b. Wymondham, Norfolk
DAWDRY, Emelia Daughter F 6 1855 Scholar b. Wymondham, Norfolk
DAWDRY, Mary Ann Daughter F 4 1857 Scholar b. Wymondham, Norfolk
DAWDRY, Egar Son M 2 1859 Scholar b. Wymondham, Norfolk
BALLY, Elizth Servant Unmarried F 18 1843 House Servant b. Wymondham, Norfolk

a probable marriage
Marriages Dec 1839
BIRD Mary Ann Norwich 13 673
Dawdry Charles Norwich 13 673

Keyboard86
06-10-2009, 3:21 AM
Hi Staceyleigh the census ref for poor Albert is RG 13/1622/104/6 all inmates of the Bethnal Green Union School are listed as born Bethnal Green.

Best Regards
Keyboard86

PS the birth reg on Freebmd states Albert Walter Dawdry West Ham JUNE 1891 ref 4a 104|wave|

Stacyleigh
06-10-2009, 3:25 AM
Thank you for correcting me on the address- I may be going blind from reading the computer screen, then to reading handwriting from the 1800's!

The Nellie mentioned in the 1901 census does not have the same parents as my g grandfather, although I do have the registered copy of this Nellie's birth if anyone needs it- LOL

From what I have so far, it looks like Albert & Nellie's parents died in their 40's.

I do believe that may be the correct family in the 1861 census though.



THANK YOU !

Stacyleigh
06-10-2009, 3:33 AM
...but... how do they get there ??? :( I just can't get my head around the whole Union school, workhouse, home children thing....

I feel SO out of it because you might as well be speaking another language to me at the moment! I have NO idea what "London E7" means but I will get it eventually!

Maybe some sleep will help me out! Thank you for the information! I'm sure it'll all come together, some day!

DRosebud
06-10-2009, 3:45 AM
Staceyleigh,

What are the names of Nellie and Albert's parents?

jsmile
06-10-2009, 7:08 AM
Staceyleigh,

London E7 means that is the area/post code(zip code)they lived in....london is divided into areas......E7(East 7 area)so Bethnal Green is in the East End of London.
Hope this is helpful

Peter Goodey
06-10-2009, 7:23 AM
The London Metropolitan Archives catalogue includes -

Bethnal Green Board of Guardians

Schools and Children

1898-1906 History Sheets of Children: letter D.
BEBG/302/001.
Catalogue entry is marked "Register Unfit for Consultation".

It may be available to the archives' own researchers. Details of the research service are on the web site.

There may be more of interest - I haven't checked the catalogue any further.

Stacyleigh
08-10-2009, 1:44 AM
Their parents names are Frederick Walter Dawdry and Sarah Jane (Haye) Dawdry

Albert was born March 13, 1899

Keyboard86
08-10-2009, 2:11 AM
Their parents names are Frederick Walter Dawdry and Sarah Jane (Haye) Dawdry

Albert was born March 13, 1899

Hi Stacyleigh is his birth 1891 or 1899 as my post 5 says June 1891 for Alberts birth ( I think your fingers slipped)!

Welcome back

Best Regards
Keyboard86|jumphappy

AdeleE
08-10-2009, 4:56 AM
There are 3 baptisms in the London Births & Baptisms database for the children of Frederick Walter Dawdry & Sarah Jane.

Saint Peter, Bethnal Green

Born 21 Jun 1887, Bapt 7 Aug 1887, Frederick Stanley, abode 375 Hackney Road, father dairyman

Saint James the Great, Bethnal Green

Born 13 Mar 1891, Bapt 18 July 1897, Albert Walter, abode 4 Robert St, father grocer

Born 19 Aug 1896, Bapt 18 May 1899, Ellen Rhoda, abode 4 Robert St, father provision labourer


Adele

DRosebud
08-10-2009, 5:16 AM
Staceyleigh,

1881 Census RG11 Piece: 384 Folio: 45 p10 address: 50 Clifton Street
Civil Parish: St Leonard Shoreditch
Holywell District 7

Frederick Dawdry (28) and Jane Dawdry (26) are living in the household of John Newton Heale (Grocer) and his wife, Lucy Agnes.

Frederick b Wymondham, NFK is an Assistant Grocer/Jane b Bethal Green, Middlesex is an Assistant wife (that is an interesting job)

DRosebud
08-10-2009, 5:31 AM
Have not been able to find Frederick nor Sarah Jane in the 1891 Census. As Albert was born in March 1891, he should have shown up on this census taken on April 5th...and now where is that older brother, Frederick Stanley (thanks to AdeleE search).

Was going to post the question AdeleE if "nellie" could be another name in the records.

Based on AdeleE's baptism finds this next 1901 Census record is of interest:

RG13 Piece: 284 Folio: 104 p. 59
Civil Parish: Bethal Green
County: London
ADDRESS: 7 ROBERT STREET

Joseph Haye Head Un 48 b Bethal Green
Sarah A? Dawdry Sister Widow 46 b Bethal Green
--------------------------------------------
Possible death of Sarah Jane Dawdry
July-Aug-Sept 1902 age 48
Bethal Green Vol 1c p. 136

DRosebud
08-10-2009, 5:36 AM
Have not been able to find Frederick nor Sarah Jane in the 1891 Census. As Albert was born in March 1891, he should have shown up on this census taken on April 5th...and now where is that older brother, Frederick Stanley (thanks to AdeleE search).

Was going to post the question AdeleE if "nellie" could be another name in the records.

Based on AdeleE's baptism finds this next 1901 Census record is of interest:

RG13 Piece: 284 Folio: 104 p. 59
Civil Parish: Bethal Green
County: London
ADDRESS: 7 ROBERT STREET

Joseph Haye Head Un 48 b Bethal Green
Sarah A? Dawdry Sister Widow 46 b Bethal Green
--------------------------------------------
Possible death of Sarah Dawdry
July-Aug-Sept 1902 age 48
Bethal Green Vol 1c p. 136

AdeleE
08-10-2009, 5:45 AM
This is most likely Nellie's birth registration:

Name: Rhoda Dawdry
Year of Registration: 1896
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Bethnal Green
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 170

Adele

DRosebud
08-10-2009, 6:06 AM
Probable death Index
1984-2005
Dawdry, Ellen Rhoda
Jan Q 1990 age 93
Waltham Forest, London
Vol 15 page 761

AdeleE
08-10-2009, 11:22 AM
Probable death Index
1984-2005
Dawdry, Ellen Rhoda
Jan Q 1990 age 93
Waltham Forest, London
Vol 15 page 761

Yes, it appears to be the same person! Date of birth on this entry is 19 Aug 1896.

Adele

Stacyleigh
09-10-2009, 12:54 AM
Yes, his YOB is 1891. I apologize! 1899 is the YOB of my greatgrandmother- I can't keep anyone straight these days! Thank you!

& YES- assistant wife if an interesting job description!

DRosebud
09-10-2009, 1:41 AM
What I can not get my head around is why I can not find any member of this family in the 1891 Census. Important information given this was one of Staceyleigh's original queries.

>Sarah Jane is at her brother's home in 1902 and no sign of her children.

>Frederick Stanley Dawdry possibly died early on or ? (no death index)

>Sarah's husband, Frederick Walter Dawdry died? between 1899 (year of Nellie's baptism nee Ellen Rhoda) and 1901 Census. (no record found)

>Sarah Jane Dawdry dies in 1902 (death index found)

>Albert admitted to Bethnal Green Union Workhouse either after his mother's death or would it have been possible after father's death that Nellie and Albert went to the workhouse? Albert asks after his sister...

Looking for the death index for Frederick Walter Dawdry between 1899 and 1901.

Just thinking out loud on paper. |banghead|

Deborah

AdeleE
09-10-2009, 2:06 AM
Here they are in 1891, indexed as Dawary on Ancestry:

Frederick W Dawdry, head, mar, 36, grocer & cheesemonger, b. Norfolk
Sarah J Dawdry, wife, mar, 34, b. Bethnal Green
(blank) Dawdry, son, 3 weeks, b. Forest Gate, Essex

153 Odessa Rd
Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish:St Saviour
Town: West Ham
County: Essex
Registration district: West Ham
RG12; Piece: 1335; Folio 45; Page 28

Adele

AdeleE
09-10-2009, 2:12 AM
This death registration fits his age:

Name: Frederick Dawdry
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Year of Registration: 1895
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 40
District: Billericay
County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 300

but doesn't fit with daughter Rhoda's date of birth of 19 Aug 1896, unless Frederick is not the biological father. Do baptisms indicate if a father is deceased? I haven't noticed that written on any baptisms yet.

Adele

Adele

AdeleE
09-10-2009, 2:21 AM
>Frederick Stanley Dawdry possibly died early on or ? (no death index)

Here's little Frederick Stanley, with a consistent but different spelling:

Birth

Name: Frederick Stanley Dawbry
Year: 1887
Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: West Ham
County: Essex, Greater London
Volume: 4a
Page: 96

Death

Name: Frederick Stanley Dawbry
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Year: 1888
Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 1
District: West Ham
County: Essex, Greater London
Volume: 4a
Page: 44

Adele

DRosebud
09-10-2009, 2:44 AM
Adele,

You are fabulous! |jumphappy|

I was thinking Frederick Stanley was perhaps possibly sickly given his was the only baptism that happened soon after birth compared to his siblings.

Your right, Frederick Walter's death regis does NOT fit with birth of Ellen and I was basing his possible death on her baptismal year. I do know I have seen 'father deceased' on many Scottish certificates but I do not think I have seen on a British certificate.

Never saw 'Dawary' on Ancestry...and with little newborn Albert.

Well done!

Deborah

AdeleE
09-10-2009, 2:54 AM
I've found son Albert already in the Bethnal Green Union School by the time of the 1901 census, not a surprise as he wasn't with his mother:

Name: Albert Dawtrey
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Bethnal Green (everyone on page is marked born Bethnal Green)
ED, institution, or vessel: Bethnal Green Union Schools
Civil parish: Leyton
Ecclesiastical parish: Leytonstone All Saints
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Perhaps Sarah's brother wouldn't accept her children into his household, and Sarah had nowhere else to go.

Adele

AdeleE
09-10-2009, 3:00 AM
and Ellen Rhoda in the Bethnal Green Infirmary in 1901:

Name: Rhoda Dawdrey
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Relation: Pauper Patient (Pauper)
Gender: Female
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England

ED, institution, or vessel: Bethnal Green Infirmary
Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
RG13; Piece: 296; Folio: 145; Page: 9

So that's all of them. A sad time in their lives....

Adele

DRosebud
09-10-2009, 3:14 AM
So pleased you found them both...but you are right of course so very little and Albert for sure was there until sent to Canada in 1905 as a British Home Child. I understand from reading about workhouses that they separated the boys and girls so he won't see his sister except perhaps chapel. I wonder if they ever saw their mother again after being admitted. Perhaps she was ill and no choice as you say.

Deborah

PS: Oh, I see they would not see each other as in two different places..

DRosebud
09-10-2009, 4:27 AM
Staceyleigh,

As Adele has stated, you now have records of Albert's immediate family members...one last record for you:

1911 Census Household Transcript
(RG14PN1077 RG78PN36 RD11 SD3 ED4 SN195)
Address: 205 Navarino Mansions Hackney NE
Enumeration District: 4
County: London Parish: St John at Hackney

Lake, William Head Married 66 Pensioner Police Chelmsford, Essex
Lake, Emma wife Married 55 b London, Bethnal Green married 26 years
Lake, Edith Emma daughter single 25 Vellum sewer stationary (worker) b Bethnal Green
Lake, Jessie Maud daughter single 21 Silk tramings upholsters (worker) b Bethnal Green
Lake, Constance daughter single 20 Clerk stationary (worker) b Bethnal Green
Dawdry, Ellen Rhoda niece single 14 blouse work b Bethnal Green

Deborah

Stacyleigh
09-10-2009, 4:48 AM
WOW- you guys are INCREDIBLE! Thank you SO much! I have just sent off for a bunch of birth and death certificates, thanks to your information, and will keep pulling those threads from there!

Again, your help is muchly appreciated!

Stacyleigh
09-10-2009, 4:57 AM
OK.... so little Frederick (as he had now become known to me! LOL) Stanley died at just over one year old

Albert was found in the Bethnal Green Union School in 1901 and Ellen Rhoda (Nellie) was located in the Bethnal Green Infirmary (is that a hospital??) in 1901 as well.....

I'm thinking that Sarah Jane was ill after her husband, Frederick Walter, died (I still haven't found his death record) and she was taken care of by her brother.

Like was said, maybe Albert & Nellie were not welcome or Sarah was not able to keep them cared for prior to living with her brother or maybe her brother didn't want to have the children with him in the event of her death.

Alot of speculation ... I know. I think of Albert & Nellie only as small, scared children, not people who carried on in life and grew old..... way older than I am right now!

Stacyleigh
09-10-2009, 6:25 AM
Question: Why would the "Lake's" take in their niece but not their nephew?

Peter Goodey
09-10-2009, 7:47 AM
the Bethnal Green Infirmary (is that a hospital??)


http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=44&hospital=bethnal+green&town=&searchdatabase.x=0&searchdatabase.y=0

DRosebud
09-10-2009, 11:19 AM
Hello Staceyleigh,

Go to website: workhouses.org.uk and in search box type Bethnal Green Infirmary; then click on Bethnal Green Workhouses and Poor Union Law. Once on the page, scroll down to Bethnal Green Infirmary description and photos c 1900.

Ellen was described as a "pauper patient" in the 1901 Census.

It would only be speculation now as you said regarding why Ellen went to live in her Uncle's house. We do not know when between 1901 and 1911 Ellen came to live with the family. Perhaps the family did not know where Albert was living and of course, he was sent to Canada in 1905.

These are the questions that you want to reach out an ask an ancestor.

In post #23, AdeleE sent details for a possible Frederick Walter Dawdry death you might want to order for information.

Please post if you find out something new from the certificates.

Kind regards,

Deborah

Stacyleigh
09-10-2009, 5:46 PM
To be perfectly honest, my great grandfather never spoke of his childhood and teenage years. When I embarked on this research, I was actually quite hesitant to ask my grandfather to sign the release form for the information from Barnardo's. The most consistant information is that Albert was not treated well before leaving England and upon his arrival to Canada, which, I'm afraid seems to be the norm.

Since starting the research, my grandfather has passed away. I do believe that the small amount of information I managed to acquire prior to his passing made him very happy.

I am on the mission to make sure people are aware of what some of these children went through and to make sure that even though they were told they were useless members of society, in reality- they made the world what it is today. My greatgrandfather went on to be a productive citizen who went on to produce 13 children! They may have had unfulfilling lives in their early years, but they proved SO much more than that during the rest of their lives. They survived despite what they were given. I don't think I would have been able to survive that!

I wish they were alive to so we, their decendants could repay our gratitude to them!

I am proud to be the descendant of a British Home Child.

DRosebud
09-10-2009, 9:16 PM
Though their early years were challenging, perhaps those events were what gave your greatgrandfather the tenacity to live through those years, find his sister, serve in the military and raise 13 children. You should be proud.

AdeleE
09-10-2009, 9:57 PM
Yes, you should be very proud. He sounds like quite a man.

Here he is on the 1911 census of Canada. If you click split/view at the top of the page, you'll see that on the columns on the right hand side of the page that he is reported to be working 60 hours a week, 52 weeks a year as a farm labourer.

http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/View.jsp?id=53715&highlight=6

Adele

Stacyleigh
09-10-2009, 10:42 PM
He never did see his sister again. When he was checked up on by Miss MacPherson's Home- they were unable to find her- that was written right in his juvenile inspection report that I was able to be lucky enough to get from Barnardos. I wondered if she took on the last name of "Lake" while living with relatives

Nellie Dawdry was listed as Albert's next of kin on his war application but the address only stated London, England. I have sent away for his military records, hoping there might be something more to find in those.

No one from the Canadian side has ever met "Nellie", which is rather unfortunate as she lived until 1993! It was known in our family, over the years, that Albert never saw any of his family after he was sent to Canada. I just sent away today for Ellen Rhoda's birth registration & I will hope to find out from her death registration who was listed as next of kin.

The information you have all brought to me has been overwhelming- I've danced around, so happy to have received it and also sat at the table & cried for children I never knew.

Mutley
09-10-2009, 11:25 PM
I have British Home Children in my family, sent from London to Canada. I did not know that until I was contacted by the Canadian descendants after my posting of the family name here on the BG forum.

They were able to tell me what had happened to the children and how they sent for their mother following the death of their father.
Names that had been missing from my tree.

I was able to tell them what had happened to the family that remained in the UK.

We actually live in a very small world and we have no idea of those who might be 'just around a corner'. ;)

Keyboard86
09-10-2009, 11:51 PM
Hi Staceyleigh, I was the first to enter this thread with the smallest smidgen of info, I am so pleased that my opening lead to your ancestors search closure.
In reading the last page quotes he sounded a great and honourable man.
Keep searching
Keyboard86|wave|

AdeleE
10-10-2009, 12:03 AM
Did your g-grandfather marry in England at the end of WW1? I've think I've found the family on the passenger list for the Scandinavian, arriving in St John, New Brunswick on 6 Mar 1920

On one page I've found:
Albert Dawdry, 28, in Ontario 1915 for 8 years, born England, going to Stratford, Ontario, occ: farmer.

On another "supplemental page" is:
Annie Dawdry, 20, travelling with husband, Ret'd Can Sol
Malinda Dawdry, 2/12

Marriage:

Name: Albert Dawdrey/Annie R Stillwell
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1918
Registration district: Guildford
Registration county: Surrey
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 192

Adele

DRosebud
10-10-2009, 12:26 AM
Oh Staceyleigh, I really had thought that he had been in contact with his little sister in later years, but no. What a remarkable and poignant family history in this instance. Please let us know what you find out from the certificates.

Mutley is right, the world is a rather small place.

Deborah

Stacyleigh
10-10-2009, 2:26 AM
Yes Adele! That is them! It was my 1st lesson on how names were spelled according to who you were speaking to!

The family name on the boarding passes is spelled "Dawdrey" and "Malinda" was actually Melinda.

They married in 1918 and came back to Canada with their first of 13 children. It surprised me that Albert never got in contact with Nellie when he returned to fight the war. I guess it wouldn't have been easy to track someone down in those days.....

I don't know how you ladies do this, especially helping other people- I'm pulling my hair out these days!

Stacyleigh
10-10-2009, 3:07 AM
Keyboard86- your help, along with DRosebud and AdeleE, the last few days has been so appreciated! You have no idea!

Mutley- I only hope that I can get in touch with descendants who don't even know we're out here! (if they'll have up) Although a few of Albert & Annie's children have passed away, there are still approximately 75- 100 of us (children, grandchildren greatgrandchildren and greatgreatgrandchildren who get together the first Sunday of every November for a Dawdry family dinner)

I'd love to keep adding Dawdry information year after year! I've amazed them in the past 3 years and can't wait to let them know what I've found recently!

THANK YOU

I will be in touch once I receive my much anticipated package from the GRO :)

Stacyleigh
08-11-2009, 12:10 AM
Frederick Stanley is not on the 1891 census as he passed away at the age of 16 mos due to "brain congestion" I just received the copy of his death registration on Thursday!!

DRosebud
08-11-2009, 12:59 AM
Hello Staceyleigh,

Poor little Frederick..

How wonderful that your Dawdry family gets together every year to catch up. You have so much to share this year!

Enjoy,

Deborah

Stacyleigh
09-11-2009, 1:58 AM
We had our family dinner today.... they all just sat there... no idea what to say.... no one in the room had even known about "Little Freddie".....it was awesome!

Now to start on what to share next year!

Thank you all for getting me this far!