View Full Version : HOLLAND GYPSYS????????
05-09-2009, 8:23 PM
hello, i am trying to look for info or get a birth certificate of fredrick holland he was born abt 1810 the holland family was from leicestershire and he was a chair bottomer when he married selina clayton in 1853 in coalville. fredricks dads name was robert holland and he to was a chair bottomer i dont know fredricks mothers name as i only have his marriage cert and it only says his dad. is a chair bottomer a gypsy trade? any help would be a great help with thanks :)
05-09-2009, 9:16 PM
You may do well to invest in the book "My Ancestors Were Gypsies (http://www.parishchest.com/shop/index.php?cmd=viewproduct&cat=&id=P81418&pageOffset=0)". Although it refers to London, it should provide help and guidance of where to look. :)
10-09-2009, 4:49 PM
I am also looking for a family of Claytons linked to the surname Holland,
Elizabeth or Lizzie Clayton married into my Whitehouse family, when she married Charles at St Matthews Walsall in 1876.
When she did she gave her name as Elizabeth Holland, and her father's name as Major Holland.
However there was no Major Holland in the area with a family in 1871 or 1881, but next door in Shenstone in 1881 to where Charles and Lizzie were living, was a Major Clayton, a tinker.
Going back in the censuses I found that he had a daughter Elizabeth of the right age to be Lizzie.
I can't understand this, except in as much as perhaps to think that the two families were closely related ( or rather the two surnames.) I don't have any proof of this other than the really odd marriage certificate, but if so it has a bearing perhaps on Clayton-Holland history?
Major was the son of Joseph and Patience Clayton. Joseph was a tinker, chimney sweep, tinman and brazier. Other trades that appear are brush-maker, brickmaker, and pottery dealers. Anything that could be carried and sold, or that could be made quickly at a stop ( e.g a quick building of walls or temporary shelters, or brushes) and I would think fixing chair-bottoms
would certainly fit into that category.
I've been researching my tinker/traveller roots for some time, and it is really hard. This freedom with the use of surnames is one reason. Illegitimacy is another one. You certainly have to get a feel for the vagaries of their lifestyle to track them in the censuses.
It's a bit like they are playing a game with us down the centuries!!
Have you tried sticking Clayton into the Search box at the top of the forum screen?
There are lots of threads about the Clayton family - many to do with the Romany side - which it may be worth looking through.
10-09-2009, 6:56 PM
You will not find a birth certificate for an 1810 birth. Registration did not start until 1837 and many Gypsy families did not bother for some time after that. I think it was the 1870s when it became compulsory.
You may be very lucky to find a baptism but that will mean searching the parishes in Leicestershire.
Have you found him in any of the census, where was his address when he married, can you pin him down to a town of birth rather than a county.
Did he have any children, were they registered or baptised?
There are more than one Frederick Hollands in Leicestershire. Another one married in 1853 in Leicester so a certain amount of caution is required to make sure you have the correct Frederick.
11-09-2009, 7:09 AM
i just found yesterday fredrick holland was born in 17/4/1813 in medbourne. his mums name was anne but i dont know her last name but she was born in 1776 in frolesworth. fredricks dads name was robert holland born in frolesworth in 1774 and they married in 1797. not sure but i was looking on a few sites and i cam across baptisem which i think was roberts on the 25 nov 1774 in rutland. it says that his parents are richard holland and there is a lady called mathew but no last name.
24-03-2010, 6:44 PM
hi moses holland was a grinder born 1835 in raveinstone leicetershire ,,,,, and eliza clayton born 1855 matlock derbyshire
24-03-2010, 6:54 PM
the claytons and the hollands were closley related moses holland born 1835 raveinstone leictershire and eliza clayton born in matlock derbyshire 1855 that was together my mother was a holland born of thomas and mary thomas farther was mackenzie holland but some times thay would take the name clayton ,boswell,booth or smith , so this makes it rather hard to find them ,,,,, my nann told me thay would change the name in one village and chage it again in the next i have been on this family tree for 6 years now and beleave me if you find anything strait forword its a bonas ,
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