Who was his first wife?

[sue2white]

My 3rd gt grandfather George Simmons (coachman) baptised 29/9/1809 in Hitchen married Caroline Keen of Berwick on Tweed in Edmonton Dec 1844.
On his marriage certificate it stated that he was a widower.
In 1851, they can be found on HO107/1491/47 & 48
George's father was John Simmons - Veternary Surgeon.
I would dearly love to find who George's first wife was.
Any help gratefully received.
Sue

[Wirral]

On that same census is listed George's son, also named George, age 14, born in Hitchin, Herts. The IGI lists what is probably him:
George Seymour SIMMONS bapt. 20 May 1836, Hitchin, Herts., father George SIMMONS, mother Mary.

[sue2white]

I knew that George - son 1836 was on that census and had looked on the IGI and found the same information, but was stumped from there. Cannot be sure that there were any more children from this 'marriage' - that I cannot find...assuming Mary was my George senior's wife. She could be Mary Seymour, but again cannot prove this. Although there IS a Mary Seymour bapt in St Mary's Hitchen, which is the same parish George was bapt in.
Sue :confused:

[pottoka]

Putting George Simmons and Mary into the IGI as father and mother and asking for baptisms 10 years either side of 1836 only throws up George Seymour Simmons and a few children with the surname Simons.

Perhaps the first wife died in child bed, from the birth of George or a sibling?

[sue2white]

Yes. I've thought that, but because George was born 1836, I cannot find
1. Marriage entry for George & Mary
2 Death for Mary, assuming she died in childbirth
3. Any reference to George & George (and Mary?) on 1841 census.

You see the dilemma.
Sue

[Wirral]

The marriage may not be on the IGI because the IGI is not complete.
If Mary died in childbirth, then that would be before civil registration started. It would also mean that she would not be on the 1841 census.
In 1841, assuming Mary had died, George junr could be with relatives or in the workhouse. As a coachman, George snr could be anywhere in the country. Have you looked for the 2 Georges separately?

[Geoffers]

Yes. I've thought that, but because George was born 1836, I cannot find
1. Marriage entry for George & Mary
2 Death for Mary, assuming she died in childbirth


I think you will need to visit Herts RO to resolve this.

You have a possible baptism of an earlier child in 1836. Try searching the baptism and burial registers for related entries, looking for any earlier baptisms to the couple.

Then try a search of both marriage and banns registers prior to then.

Is there a published index to licences for Hertfordshire, in case the couple did not marry after banns?

If you cannot locate a banns/marriage register entry, or a licence - Can you identify John SIMMONS, the Vet in any directories or census returns? This may provide an alternative parish in which to look for records.

[janbooth]

There are 2 possible marriages listed on the Herts Direct Online Marriage Index:

9 March 1835 at Watford George SIMMONDS & Maria COLLINS
27 July 1835 at Weston George SIMMONS & Mary SEYMOUR

Weston is extremely close to Hitchin.

You can order the details online, I believe, but am not sure of the cost.

Janet

[janbooth]

Further to the above, George & Maria SIMMONS are living in Watford in both the 1841/51 census records, so that eliminates the first marriage. There is also a marriage on the Index at St Pauls Walden for a John SIMMONS & an Ann DAY on 14 October 1790 which fits in quite well with the extracted christening on the IGI of what looks like your George's eldest sibling William on 11 September 1791 at Hitchin.

Janet

[Jan1954]

Further to the above, George & Maria SIMMONS are living in Watford in both the 1841/51 census records, so that eliminates the first marriage. There is also a marriage on the Index at St Pauls Walden for a John SIMMONS & an Ann DAY on 14 October 1790 which fits in quite well with the extracted christening on the IGI of what looks like your George's eldest sibling William on 11 September 1791 at Hitchin.

JanetLocal knowledge: St Pauls Walden is only round the corner from Hitchin. :)

[sue2white]

27 July 1835 at Weston George SIMMONS & Mary SEYMOUR

That's the one!! I can order the film to check it out.
Brilliant! As George junior looks like being George Seymour Simmons born 1836.

I didn't realise that there was a Herts online marriage register.


There is also a marriage on the Index at St Pauls Walden for a John SIMMONS & an Ann DAY on 14 October 1790 which fits in quite well

I had this already, but not this:


the extracted christening on the IGI of what looks like your George's eldest sibling William on 11 September 1791 at Hitchin

So thanks to everyone.

|bowdown||bowdown|

Just to finish off, I wonder when Mary died and whether there were any more children to this marriage.

Sue