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Wayne Cook
10-06-2009, 4:18 AM
Sorry I can't be any more specific at the moment.

I am looking for James Brindley who died in NSW 1847 (he arrived in Sydney Feb/Mar 1846).

NSW BD&M says it is an old church record and couldn't tell me where from.

If no one can find him for me, I'll have to try and get to Sydney and go to the State Records Office reading room.

Thanks in advance,

Wayne

Procat
10-06-2009, 8:35 AM
Hi Wayne,

The NSW Deaths CD records this information for him:

Name: James Brindley
Index Year: 1847
Age: 55
Denomination: Church of England
Parish: St Lawrence's, Sydney
Volume Reference: V1847412 32B
Registration Number: 0

So, I think we can assume he was buried in Sydney.

You may find this (http://www.ccsl.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=284&Itemid=179) link of some interest.

Wayne Cook
10-06-2009, 8:50 AM
thanks procat,

So nothing remains of the cemetery :( and I need to try and see if his remains were relocated to another cemetery.

Wayne

Procat
10-06-2009, 9:07 AM
I think it may pay to try and get hold of a copy of the index of reinternments.

Again, from the web site:

An index of reinterments has recently been published: K A Johnson and M R Sainty, Sydney Burial Ground 1819-1901 (Elizabeth and Devonshire Streets) and History of Sydney’s Early Cemeteries from 1788 (Library of Australian History, 2001).

The Society of Australian Genealogists appears to have a copy in their library.

Wayne Cook
10-06-2009, 9:14 AM
Thanks Doug

Wayne Cook
11-06-2009, 1:19 AM
One of my cousins after I told them this info searched the internet about the Sydney Burial Ground and has told me that apparently not all the bodies were relocated eg. those with no headstones and or no relatives the headstones were crushed and their remains left.

So he may be under Sydney's Central Railway Station :(

If he is still buried there what a place for the remains of an old Royal NSW Veteran (who was based in Tasmania) to end up.

I so hope he was moved.

Wayne

spison
11-06-2009, 2:11 AM
Dear Wayne,
The original Wallsend Cemetery in Newcastle also suffered this ignominity. Some of the oldest headstones were moved to Sandgate but the rest were crushed. The bodies were left where they lay. At least this cemetery is now a park - appropriately called "Rest Park." Good luck with finding any church references. Keep us up to date.
Jane

spison
11-06-2009, 2:16 AM
Further to that you may already be aware but just in case you're not: the V references that Procat has given should be able to be read anywhere there is a copy of the State Archives kit. They take a bit of negotiating but you may be lucky.
Jane

Wayne Cook
11-06-2009, 2:23 AM
I just spoke with SAG and she wasn't able to find James Brindley in the book, found other Brindleys but not James. She confirmed that there are still graves under Central Station.

Funny you mention the old Wallsend Cemetery as my great grandmother Mary Jane Charlotte Perkins (ne: Barrett) wife of George Kendrick Perkins (they were both born in Tasmania) is in an unmarked grave in the old roman catholic section somewhere, she died in Wallsend Hospital in 1922.

Do you know more about the cemetery? eg. when? was it just the headstones moved etc.?

Wayne

Wayne Cook
11-06-2009, 2:29 AM
it now looks like I'd need to find undertaker's records if any exist.

Hugh Thompson
11-06-2009, 4:05 AM
Hi Wayne, is this the church you're after.
Hugh.

http://www.sydneyarchitecture.com/cbd/cbd7-015.htm

Wayne Cook
11-06-2009, 6:04 AM
Hugh,

Thanks, yes that is it :) .

Now to try and find the undertaker's or cemetery records (if any exist) for the Sydney Burial Ground (Devonshire Street) interments while it was operating. Doubt I'll find them though.

Wayne

spison
11-06-2009, 7:53 AM
The Newcastle Family History Society has just completed a book on the cemetery. I haven't had a very good look at it as yet but I will do so when I am next there. I am pushed for time this week. I live very close to the old cemetery site so I can photograph it for you. Newcastle City council has old photographs of the cemetery on a searchable database but no headstones are able to be read as they are site photos. This should get you there. You're after the Hunter photobank.

http://collections.ncc.nsw.gov.au/keemu/pages/nrm/index.htm

Jane

Wayne Cook
11-06-2009, 8:11 AM
Thanks Jane,

I've been to what is now the old r/c part of the old Wallsend Cemetery as I live near Paterson. My Great Grandmother should be in the book as I provided her name etc. but she doesn't have a headstone. Her husband is buried at Rookwood.

Thanks for the link and I'll check it out

Kind Regards,

Wayne

Hugh Thompson
11-06-2009, 9:38 AM
Wayne, have you been to this site? I don't know if you are after any of these Brindley's, not the one in question I'm afraid but maybe some help farther down the road, photos of the headstones as well.
Hugh.

http://cemindex.arkangles.com/inscriptions.php

Wayne Cook
11-06-2009, 1:22 PM
Hugh thanks,

I hadn't seen that but as far as I'm aware at the moment James is the only Brindley surname in his family that came here. I haven't been able to go back any further than his marriage.

Kind Regards,

Wayne

Wayne Cook
11-06-2009, 3:30 PM
For those who suggested the book

Sydney Burial Ground 1819-1901 & History Of Sydneys Early Cemeteries From 1788

I just read this about the book in relation to the Devonshire Street Cemetery.

"It is estimated that more than 30,000 persons were buried in this cemetery.This publication records over 10,000 identified remains which were transferred in 1901"

so I take that as there are about 20,000 unidentified remains that were buried there.

I say my best hope would be to try and confirm that James Brindley was one of the 20,000 unidentified ones (that may or may not have been moved).

Wayne

Procat
12-06-2009, 10:55 AM
I think I would get the certificate Wayne. I haven't seen one that early for NSW but there may be some clues on it.

Wayne Cook
12-06-2009, 3:14 PM
it double posted so removed this one

Wayne Cook
12-06-2009, 3:17 PM
Procat,

Thanks for you help. greatly appreciated.

A cousin is arranging to see the microfilm of the church record but I may also go and look at it myself.

NSW BD&M say because it was in 1847 their info is from the church records, I hope the church records say what cemetery but I think it would be the undertakers records that would have the cemetery and not the church records.

My own siblings

a stillborn sister 7 Jan 1950
a brother 6 hours 20 Oct 1950
a brother 12 hours 31st Dec 1952 died 1 Jan 1853
a brother 21hrs 6 Jan 1954 died 7 Jan 1954
(yes exactly 4 years to the day of the 1st of my siblings)

as far as I'm aware the church records didn't say the cemetery but I may be wrong (infact they didn't even have a record of my stillborn sister because as a stillborn they didn't even acknowledge her and bury her). I already knew the cemetery so this wasn't an issue. It was undertakers records that told me but they didn't have plot numbers because even in those days they didn't record them.

It was searching for the graves of my parents first 4 children (my siblings) that started my family history research and why I am so passionate about trying to find graves.

Sorry if this comes across wrong or not worded properly (I appreciate your help and it just upsets me that my great great great grandfathers grave may be under Central Station in Sydney or in an unkown grave after having served the british colony the way he did. To me this is not a just resting place for him).

Kind Regards,

Wayne

Procat
13-06-2009, 1:20 AM
Hi Wayne,

I suspect you are correct about the information regarding burials. The earliest certificate I have is 1853 in Victoria and it was certainly silent about the place of burial.

This is probably a long shot but if your cousin is in Sydney they could try checking with the NSW State Library to see if they have newspapers of the time. If they do and you can nail down the date it could be worth a look.

I understand your views about the final resting place. I have a couple of mine that I am unable to trace a burial for.

marianne Faull
13-06-2009, 2:47 PM
Hi, I will get you the details tomorrow, but usually the information in the burial register is:Name, Abode, When died, When Buried, Age, Quality or Profession, By whom the ceremony was performed., and of course the parish of burial.
Marienne

Wayne Cook
13-06-2009, 4:21 PM
Thankyou.

I don't expect the church records would have much as his wife and family were still in Tasmania and he only arrived in Sydney the year before.

Kind Regards,

Wayne

Wayne Cook
14-06-2009, 1:55 AM
Marianne,

I went to Maitland Library yesterday (before seeing your post) to search for myself but the library is closed for 2 weeks while they replace the roof. Marianne thankyou again for your you kind offer and it is greatly appreciated.

Wayne

Wayne Cook
16-06-2009, 12:01 AM
Marianne, thanks for the info in the other thread (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46901).

I just looked at the book on the Sydney Burial Ground (Devonshire & Elizabeth Streets) page 39 and it says there were 4,080 unknown graves in the Church of England section when they exhumed the remains. Not sure if I'm reading it correctly but my interpretation is that they were moved to the Botany New Cemetery as there is a list of the denominations, coffins, known and unknown and below them it says total to Botany New Cemetery and the totals in that row equals all those listed above.

Kind Regards,

Wayne

Wayne Cook
16-06-2009, 12:22 AM
I also forgot to add (which I just worked out what it meant) that it appears when they relocated the remains that for the Church of England Section they averaged 10 remains per coffin. Which I take as each coffin buried at Botany contains 10 unknown people's remains).

So if my great great great grandfather was relocted he is now buried at the New Botany Cemetery in a coffin with about 10 other people :(

Wayne Cook
17-06-2009, 9:23 AM
Ok Eastern Suburbs Memorial Park apparently have copies of the burial records for Devonshire Street Cemetery (Sydney Burial Ground) and they say that James Brindley isn't listed as being buried there.

I have no idea where to look now.

Did they bury veteran soldiers somewhere else? What other cemeteries were operating in Sydney in 1847?

I've tried contacting the Christ Church, parish of St Laurence's but doubt they will be helpful as they say all their records are in the State Library in Mitchell Street.

Any ideas welcome.

Wayne

spison
18-06-2009, 12:43 AM
Wayne,
The launch of the Old Wallsend Cemetery Book is to be on the 28th June. If you contributed a name then I'd hope you were sent info of this. If not I'll find the details.
Jane

Wayne Cook
18-06-2009, 1:52 AM
Jane,

No didn't know about it.

Wayne

Wayne Cook
27-06-2009, 1:36 PM
The launch of the book you mentioned is tomorrow and I still have no details.

Did you find any?

Kind Regards,

Wayne

spison
27-06-2009, 11:54 PM
Wayne, I'm so sorry.
Things have been tricky here and now you've missed it. I don't know how I missed your penultimate post. I certainly will look up the info for you when I next get there which won't be for a couple of weeks. (My daughter's off to Canberra to study (yet again) and things are very hectic.)
Jane

Wayne Cook
28-06-2009, 3:59 AM
Thanks for the post.

We all get busy and forget or miss things.

k, I missed the launch of the book.

Have a good day and I hope things settle down a bit for you soon.

I was not after any info from it, I may have bought a copy and also verified my great grandmother's info was correct though.

Kind Regards,

Wayne

Aussiebird
28-06-2009, 1:30 PM
Wayne

my ggg grandparents were reintered from Devonshire Street Cemetery in Rookwood Cemetery, you may like to try there. http://rookwoodcemetery.com.au/

Cheers

Procat
29-06-2009, 12:37 AM
I tried the Rookwood Cemetary Inscriptions CD without success. But given the circumstances it would be unlikely he would have a memorial I suspect.

Wayne Cook
29-06-2009, 3:53 AM
Thanks,

I had tried Rookwood Cemetery and like you have found, they have no record of him.

I wonder who has the originals of the burial records for Devonshire Street incase the copy held by ESMP has a page missing or he is for some reason in another section.

Kind Regards,

Wayne