Place Names in Wales

[Carmy]

Is there anywhere I can find a COMPLETE list of Welsh place names by county?

Currently, I'm using what SOG (Chapman) posted but I'm finding many places are missing, in Merionethshire and Mongomeryshire especially.

[Kerrywood]

Have you tried using GenUKI (http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/)? :)

Kerrywood

[Carmy]

Thanks, Kerrywood, but it doesn't list place names in a handy reference, unless I'm missing something.

When I transcribe, I'm offline. I was able to extract county place names from SOG to use off line but I haven't been able to find anywhere with a complete list of names.

[Carmy]

Well ain't life a hoot! I found what I wanted on an Irish site, begorra!

[busyglen]

Carmy, I used to transcribe for FreeCen, and used Genie Place Locator, which uses the Chapman codes. I originally downloaded it from the FreeCen page, but I can't see a link now, and so far haven't found it via Google. If I come across it, I will let you know.

Glenys

[Kerrywood]

Carmy, you could try Parloc (http://parloc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/parlocdl.html), a free downloadable parish locator. That said, their spelling of English parish names is not perfect, and I don't know what they will have done with the Welsh ones ;)

Kerrywood

[Carmy]

Thanks, busyglen.

I found Genie and downloaded it. My computer told me it was an unrecognised file and refused to install. If it used the Chapman codes, it would offer the same information I downloaded from SOG. Several places were missing, that's why I went on a hunt for the rest. It's hard to transcribe when you have no idea if a place name is spelled properly and you know some places exist becuase you've been there.

The Irish site names every little town and village in Wales. All the ones missing from Chapman/SOG.

[busyglen]

I know what you mean when trying to transcribe something that you haven't a clue how it is spelt in the first place. Sorry Genie couldn't help, but then you are quite right that they didn't have all of the places. Only the ones they had discovered at the time I think, and yes they used the Chapman codes so that it would make the transcriptions easier to place in the right counties.

Hope you manage to sort something out, I always gave it my best shot, which was all anyone could do. ;)

Glenys

[Carmy]

Thanks Glenys, I truly appreciate your help.

Welsh names are the very devil, even when you speak Welsh. Some I know are wrong the minute I see them, because certain letters don't exist in the Welsh alphabet or the sequence of letters is unlikely, but finding them is often hit and miss. Phonetics comes into it a lot of the time and my dog gives me some strange looks when I try the name out loud.

[mariner]

Well ain't life a hoot! I found what I wanted on an Irish site, begorra!
Hi Carmy
Daughter in law is |banghead| looking for Abermman, the location was written by her Gt Grandfather early 1900's in beautiful copperplate handwriting, but I'm wondering if they spelt it as they might have pronounced it, and it is actually Aberamman , They were coal hauliers, so the shift from the Amman Valley to Swansea is not all that far.
Mariner

[busyglen]

Thanks Glenys, I truly appreciate your help.

Welsh names are the very devil, even when you speak Welsh. Some I know are wrong the minute I see them, because certain letters don't exist in the Welsh alphabet or the sequence of letters is unlikely, but finding them is often hit and miss. Phonetics comes into it a lot of the time and my dog gives me some strange looks when I try the name out loud.
I know what you mean! My christian name is Welsh although I am not, and my sister in law is Welsh, but I still have difficulty in pronouncing place names. Ynsybwl, (I think that is how it's spelt) is a place near to where my sister in law lives, and I think it's pronounced something like annie-c-buth! Nothing like it looks. You have my sympathy! ;)

Glenys

[Carmy]

Here you go Mariner: http://www.activbelfast.com/Counties.aspx

I suggest you start with Carmarthenshire because of Ammanford. Aber means 'mouth of the river' so Amman must be the name of the river. I'm not sure I've heard of Abermman but Aberamman is a possiblity.

I hope this helps.

[Kerrywood]

Daughter in law is |banghead| looking for Abermman, the location was written by her Gt Grandfather early 1900's in beautiful copperplate handwriting, but I'm wondering if they spelt it as they might have pronounced it, and it is actually Aberamman , They were coal hauliers, so the shift from the Amman Valley to Swansea is not all that far.
Mariner

Mariner, have you considered Aberaman (http://webapps.rhondda-cynon-taff.gov.uk/heritagetrail/cynon/aberaman/aberaman.htm), where there was a large colliery? Scroll down for text and photos.

Kerrywood

[Ms Tarfgi]

<and I think it's pronounced something like annie-c-buth! Nothing like it looks. You have my sympathy>

Actually it's pronounced exactly how it looks - once you know the rules for Welsh pronounciation. Unlike English: cough, rough, bough, dough, etc. :D

[Gododdin]

George Bernard Shaw (I think) once pointed out the inconsistency of English spelling by showing that you can spell 'fish' as gh(as in rough)o(as in women)ti(as in patient). Of course, he was Irish. The double-m as in Ammanford, Amman Valley etc is a hangover from the days before Welsh spelling was reformed just over a century ago, and is not used in modern Welsh.
I think Gt Grandfather simply had a lapse and forgot the 'a'.
Godo

[mariner]

Here you go Mariner: http://www.activbelfast.com/Counties.aspx

I suggest you start with Carmarthenshire because of Ammanford. Aber means 'mouth of the river' so Amman must be the name of the river. I'm not sure I've heard of Abermman but Aberamman is a possiblity.

I hope this helps.
Thanks Carmy I'll pass it on, also thanks Kerrywood I'll pass that on as well.
Mariner

[Carmy]

You're welcome, Mariner.

Glynis - Mrs. Tarfgi is right, to those who know Welsh Ynysybwl it is pronounced as it is spelled. Here's the closest I can come using phonetics and English pronounciation -- uh niece uh bull. I hope that helps.

[busyglen]

You're welcome, Mariner.

Glynis - Mrs. Tarfgi is right, to those who know Welsh Ynysybwl it is pronounced as it is spelled. Here's the closest I can come using phonetics and English pronounciation -- uh niece uh bull. I hope that helps.
Thanks for that Carmy....I am always struggling with the names when we visit.

Glenys (or Glen, it's easier) ;)

[Ladkyis]

And if you live in the old county of Monmouthshire then you don't stand a chance of getting the welsh pronunciation right.

We talks special round yer see and we adds the occasional letter S to the ends of words because we thinks they sounds berra see - an' yer in the Port you knows it!

I love the way we speak in south wales. Not so much in the valleys, although that is so unique, but in Cardiff and Newport and all along that polyglot coastline. It is marvellous.

I highly recommend John edwards Talk Tidy recordings as a useful way of tuning your ears to the accent of Pontypridd and the valleys. As well as being very useful they are extremely funny too

[Carmy]

You're welcome, Glen. Any time.

Ladkyis - I can't say I've spent a lot of time in Monmothshire but Valley people always surprise me. They have very strong accents but not too many speak Welsh. I've met a few here in Canada and always been so excited because I think it will give me a chance to practice Welsh. Not so, none of them could speak it.

[Ms Tarfgi]

There's not much Welsh spoken in the Valleys, probably because so many people from Ireland and England mainly came there in the Industrial Revolution looking for work.

The main Welsh-speaking areas are West and North-West Wales - more rural than industrial.

[Ms Tarfgi]

I loves your Newp accent Ladkyis! They adds s's on the words in "Caardiff" too don't they?

Good examples of accents in south-east Wales in "Gavin and Tracy" - lovely Barry accents!

[Ladkyis]

You're welcome, Glen. Any time.

Ladkyis - I can't say I've spent a lot of time in Monmothshire but Valley people always surprise me. They have very strong accents but not too many speak Welsh. I've met a few here in Canada and always been so excited because I think it will give me a chance to practice Welsh. Not so, none of them could speak it.


Thats cos we speaks Wenglish not Welsh or English see. Iss sort of English with a Welsh twist.

The Welsh accent is strong but the words are mostly English or a corruption of Welsh words as said by the English and Irish and Cornish who came to the Welsh Klondike to work King Coal.
Strangely, the word order is sometimes Welsh too, indeed with it!

[Carmy]

Thats cos we speaks Wenglish not Welsh or English see. Iss sort of English with a Welsh twist.

The Welsh accent is strong but the words are mostly English or a corruption of Welsh words as said by the English and Irish and Cornish who came to the Welsh Klondike to work King Coal.
Strangely, the word order is sometimes Welsh too, indeed with it!

So that's what happened, is it.

The odd thing is that my mother came from Barry but lived most of her life in Carmarthenshire after she married my father. Her Welsh wasn't the best but her English was excellent. She had very little accent and we spoke a lot of English at home. It was a good thing back then because we didn't study English at school until were were nine or ten, and Aunty BBC was 99% Welsh. Later, Mam went to live with one of my brothers in Glamorgan and developed a very strong accent in no time. It's as if it had been sitting in her mind all those years and finally found release.

I love the word order in Welsh. Oddly, when I started to learn Spanish I found it had basically the same word order as Welsh, see.

[busyglen]

I do have Welsh blood in me see, as my gt.gt.grandfather Jones was born in Wales, but that was North not South. Wish I could trace where in Denbigh he was born, but the chances are I never will. :(

I love the sing-song voices, and it was great fun when my husband & I went on a coach trip which was full of Welsh people, several years ago, and they all broke into song on the way back. Pure heaven. :)

Glenys

[Carmy]

I know what you mean, Busyglen. A couple of years ago, at an International festival held in one of our parks, they had a male-voice choir from Wales. I've never seen a crowd fall so silent, even the children, or applaud so much. I don't think they'd ever heard anything like it.

I just wish I had a good singing voice. I'm probably one of the few Welsh people you wouldn't want to listen to.