Samuel Smith 1827 & Patience 1826

[babygirl101]

I’ve come across this little collection of Smiths on the 1901 census :-

RG13, 4418, 94, 20, but as yet I haven’t managed to find them on ny other census returns. I don’t know who they are, and so far as far as I can tell they’re not mine, so if anyone wishes to claim them, feel free, as they’re giving me such a headache |banghead|

Samuel 1827 Retford, Nottinghamshire and “partner” Patience 1826, Unknown.

The children who are with them are:-

1. Gilroyd aka Gilder gives PoB as Seamer, Yorks, although IGI gives bap. 14.6.1867 Harome Yorkshire with his “partner” Margaret b. 1879, Wakefield. With them is a sister, Rosetta, 1881, Rawcliffe Yorks; Henry, brother, 1874, Sheffield; Harriett, sister, 1876, Swinefleet, Yorkshire.

Although Harriett is listed as ‘sister’ there’s a Harriett on IGI as d/o Samuel and Patience bap 3.11.1874, Whitgift, Yorks

2. Levi bap Warsop near Worksop, Nottinghamshire 3.6.1858 and his “partner” Charlotte, 1859, Leeds. They have the following children:-

Ada, 1877, Pontefract
Horatio, 1880, Belton Lincs
Tennant, 1885, Hull
Harriett, 1887, Stainforth
Annie, 1891, Fishlake, Yorks
Emily, 1894, Skyehouse, Yorks
Holby, 1895, Hull
Jessie, 1889, Halifax
John Henry, Grandson, 1896, Skyehouse

3. Selina bap 26.6.1870, Hemingbrough Yorkshire:-

Elias, 1889, Barnsley
Fenwick, 1896, Goole
Robert ,1898, Hull
Walter, 1900, Westwoodide, Lincs

And finally:-

John Gray 1856 Tuxford and “partner” Margaret, 1857 County Durham and their children:-

Catherine 1889, Duffield, Yorks
Levi 1891, Selby
Edith Annie 1896, Hull
May (H)ower, 1898, Goole
Albert Edward 1901 Carlton

Although not with these, Samuel and Patience also appear have another daughter who was not with them in 1901 - Maraliel bap 19.5.1861, Laughton, Lincs

BG :)

[JoanneM]

Although not with these, Samuel and Patience also appear have another daughter who was not with them in 1901 - Maraliel bap 19.5.1861, Laughton, Lincs

I can confirm this bapt from the Laughton parish registers:

19 May 1861 Maraliel d/o Samuel and Patience Smith, vagrant

Don't know anything else on the rest, though. :confused:

Jo.

[babygirl101]

Thanks for that, Jo. I've also got a record of Levi's baptism which names his parents as Samuel & Patience. It's so bizarre that there's no trace of them anywhere else ??? Given the names and locations I think they're probably my rellies, but right I'm disowning them lol

BG :)

[JoanneM]

Might be barking up completely up the wrong tree here :D, but...........

Looking for a Patience born around 1826, there is a Patience Smith on the IGI bapt 1831 at North Witham Lincs, d/o Theodoceus and Ann Smith. No other baptism for a couple of this name are showing up.

Five years earlier Maria d/o Wisdom and Maria Smith was bapt at North Witham. This Wisdom was previously with Brownetta Smith and one their children (as posted by Ann on the 'more on travelling families thread') was a daughter, Theodosia bapt 1816.

We've seen female/male mix-ups on the baptisms before, the dates would fit (just!)..........

Will check the North Witham parish registers out next time I'm at the Archives, and let you know if I find anything.

Jo. :)

[JoanneM]

Might be barking up completely up the wrong tree here :D, but...........

Looking for a Patience born around 1826, there is a Patience Smith on the IGI bapt 1831 at North Witham Lincs, d/o Theodoceus and Ann Smith. No other baptism for a couple of this name are showing up.

Five years earlier Maria d/o Wisdom and Maria Smith was bapt at North Witham. This Wisdom was previously with Brownetta Smith and one their children (as posted by Ann on the 'more on travelling families thread') was a daughter, Theodosia bapt 1816.

We've seen female/male mix-ups on the baptisms before, the dates would fit (just!)..........

Will check the North Witham parish registers out next time I'm at the Archives, and let you know if I find anything.

Jo. :)

:D Might not have been barking up such a wrong tree after all.

From the North Witham Lincs BTs:

25 Apr 1831 baptism of Patience d/o Theodoceus and Ann Smith, traveller, tinker

Question is, is Theodoceus the Theodosia bapt 1816, parents Wisdom and Maria Smith?

Jo. :)

[JoanneM]

Question is, is Theodoceus the Theodosia bapt 1816, parents Wisdom and Maria Smith?

D'oh! I mean Wisdom and Brownetta Smith of course. It's been a long day...............|oopsredfa

[Ann65]

Im wondering if this mysterious theodocius smith would have anything to do with BGs mysterious Dosher Smith?

[JoanneM]

Im wondering if this mysterious theodocius smith would have anything to do with BGs mysterious Dosher Smith?

Oooh, now that's a thought, isn't it? :D

Dosher Smith, father of the Robert Smith born c.1835-1840 at Wragby, or so he claims, who married Sabina Charlotte daughter of Edward.

You could be on to something there.

[JoanneM]

There's a death on freebmd for a Doshaw Smith, Dec qtr 1851 at Belper. Wonder if that's him?

[Ann65]

I always try to think of what they personally would say, and knowing local travs around here, how it would sound. Now I find they have what I could term "lazy speech" - for example "twennylambutlerpls" is twenty lambert & butler fags pls....... Theodosia is what I would call a female name, Ive seen it in females in Lincs whos nowt to do with the Rom folkies. But having said that, Theopolius Theo whatever turns up male names, maybe the vicar didnt hear quite right. Wouldnt be the first time. Froniga Hearn/Heron was actually suposed to be a rendition of the non-romany Veronica!! accordin to the JGLS/fam hist lore.

So Theodosia could well end up being translated or sounded like, Dosher.......

[babygirl101]

Thanks for checking that out Jo and I would say it's quite likely that the Patience you've found d/o Theodoceus and Ann Smith is her - well done you :D, but at the risk of quashing this argument, the connection with Wisdom and Brownetta doesn't feel right somehow. The age gap between their Theodosia b. 1816 and the Theodoceus f/o Patience would have made him about 15 when Patience was born, which is cutting it fine, assuming that for some reason the wrong gender was given at the baptism.

Another reason that this doesn't feel right, is that as Ann has quite rightly said Theodosia is a female name and Theodoceus, male, if I recall from my school girl Latin the name ending denotes the gender i.e. 'us' is male, and the use of 'ia' female, though I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on this one, it's a long time ago lol.

The possibility of Theodoceus becoming Dosher does look like a runner though, I'll see what else I can find, but there's no much to go on if as you say, Jo, that death in 1851, Belper was him!!

BG :)

[JoanneM]

The possibility of Theodoceus becoming Dosher does look like a runner though, I'll see what else I can find, but there's no much to go on if as you say, Jo, that death in 1851, Belper was him!!

I do think there's a really good chance that Theodoceus and Dosher are one and the same. As for Theodosia being Theodoceus, I'm just bearing it in the back of my mind for now. If Wisdom himself hadn't been in North Witham just a few years earlier I probably wouldn't have put 2 and 2 together so quickly for that.

I'm dithering about ordering that death cert. If it is him it might shed some light on my elusive Charlotte's, but 'Dosha' seems to be used as a female name (not common but there are a few - never heard of that one before! - so it might be a complete red herring). But then again, there's no other Dosh* Smiths showing up, and Belper is a district that I could see him being in. And the fact there is so little evidence on him does possibly lend credence to the fact that he died relatively young.

I think I'm going to do a bit more digging before I part with any cash just yet.

Jo. :)

[babygirl101]

Is it worth putting a message on Derbys. board, someone may have access to the death registers for Belper?? just a thought

BG :)

[JoanneM]

Is it worth putting a message on Derbys. board, someone may have access to the death registers for Belper?? just a thought

BG :)

Hi BG,

Sorry for not replying sooner - not had time to be online much for the last few days.

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll have a look into this.

Jo.

[babygirl101]

I've just put a posting on the Derbyshire section for Doshaw Smith, fingers crossed someone may be able to help us solve this puzzle, if not I'll order a certificate.

BG :)

[JoanneM]

Thanks for that. :) I was just thinking that I hadn't got round to doing anything with that.

Jo.