View Full Version : Arles France marriage?
23-05-2009, 5:37 PM
I am trying to trace the marriage of a Thomas William Paulo Ellsey born 1813 Marylebone and a Susanna ??? who was born in Arles France.They came from a circus family and the story goes that they married in France. I cannot trace any record of their marriage in London where they lived and had their children and have hit a brick wall. ??? They had the following three children all born Marylebone London - Thomas born 1834, Josephine 1836 and Elizabeth 1839. The family lived in the Marylebone area of London.
Any advice as to what to do next would be greatly appreciated :).
23-05-2009, 9:19 PM
Arles is in the département of the Bouches-du-Rhône (13), and the archives for births, marriages and deaths are on-line.
I've just tried to get onto the site for you but it says that there are too many people using it, and also it is closed down between quarter past ten in the evening and one o'clock on Sundays. It's now twenty past ten, but it's still Saturday, so is that tonight or tomorrow night?
I'll try again for you tomorrow.
(I'm not putting the link in the message as I have done before, and it works for a couple of days and then sends out an error message which isn't much help)
23-05-2009, 10:59 PM
I managed to get on to the site a bit later and looked in the ten-year tables for Arles for ELLSEY, Thomas William, but I'm afraid that he is just not there. I looked at the tables for 1823-1832 and 1833 -1842. I also looked to see if there was a birth under the name Ellsey, which might have pointed me to a date of marriage, but couldn't find one, either. I also tried Ellsey with an 'A' rather than an 'E' at the beginning, but came up with nothing there.
I'm sorry about this, as well as pissed off as this must be at least the third or fourth time I've tried to find someone in these records without any luck at all. Maybe I bring bad luck ... :(
23-05-2009, 11:25 PM
As you said that the Ellseys were a circus family, I thought that they might have gone on to Marseilles from Arles, so I tried those records. Well, maybe Thomas went to Marseilles before he went to Arles, not after ...
Tomorrow I'll get out my big map of France and look to see what close towns to Arles are also on the online records and have a whirl with them.
Unfortunately, there are no centralised records for France like in England and Wales. You have to know the exact place where a birth, marriage or death took place to be able to find the record. So if they didn't get married near Arles, but on the way up through France, I don't think you stand much chance of ever finding that elusive document.
24-05-2009, 8:00 AM
Thank you so much for all the work you have done on this - I really appreciate it. I am going to try and get the birth certificate of one of their children - Elizabeth who gets registered just when they have certificates. Hopefully this will give me Susanna's surname so that I can maybe try and track her family in Arles.
I will get back to you when I have done this to ask your advice.
25-05-2009, 11:35 PM
That sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
I'm afraid that I didn't have time to get back on to the site yesterday and probably won't this week: busy week at work looming, plus relatives from the other side of the world staying - with my inlaws luckily, but my worthy bedfellow does want to see as much of his brother as he can. Logical, the last time he came was over twelve years ago!
Let me know when you get the certificate, and we'll try to track Susanna down. If you're really lucky, when you find her birth certificate, it could have her marriage details in the margin - "could" being the operative word!
26-05-2009, 7:31 PM
The certificate should be here by friday so I will get back to you then.
01-06-2009, 6:04 PM
The certificate arrived - I was quite disappointed because I thought it would reveal a french name! Alas it didn't , Couldn't read it properly - illegible handworting but it was definitely Mc ..something. Looked like Mc Lawley??
So I am now looking for a birth in Arles for a Susanna Mclawley?? in about 1816 ish.
Any help appreciated.
03-06-2009, 11:14 PM
How frustrating not to get an exotic French ancestor when that was what you were expecting! I tried to look up Susanna's birth this evening but the images won't download on to the screen, and I just get a message asking me to be patient - difficult when you've left it to load, gone and made a cup of tea, drunk the tea, watched a rubbish programme on the box, etc etc, and it's still saying the same thing! |computer|
Can you try to put the mother's maiden name on to the site so that everyone can have a go at reading it? There are lots of members who are a whizz at deciphering bad writing. You need to use photobucket http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30819 and just put on the relevant bit of the certificate.
04-06-2009, 5:45 AM
Finally worked out Susanna's surname - it is McCauley. I confirmed this by finding a marriage reference on Boyds for a Thomas Ellesy and a Susan McCaulaey getting married in 1834 at St George's Mayfair, London.
So am now looking for birth of a Susanna ( Susan ) McCauley c 1816.
07-06-2009, 3:00 AM
I'm afraid that I don't have good news for you |sad1|
I went through the 1813-1822 'M' tables for Arles and came up with nothing. The births were in alphabetical order so I tried Mc and Mac. Then I did the ten-year tables both before and after, with no luck, so went back to 1813-1822 and checked the 'C's in case the clerk had thought Mac was a middle name.
I also did Tarascon, Martigues and, in desperation, Marseilles, but Susanna has remained coyly elusive. There are a few small parishes which I can go through, although I'm not sure where they are in relation to Arles.
I'm sorry about this and quite frustrated as well.
07-06-2009, 3:27 AM
Out of interest, I thought I'd look Susanna up on the Censuses in England.
|help|! I must be doing something wrong as I couldn't find her (or Thomas) at all, and it seems that Ellsey is a fairly uncommon name. Do you have any references for the Censuses to help a poor idiot find a way in the dark?
08-06-2009, 5:06 AM
Thanks for all the effort you are making on our behalf.
These are the notes I have on Susanna and Thomas.
There is an entry on Boyd's Marriage Index for the marriage of Thos. Ellsey smd Sus. Maccauley at St George's, Hanover Square, Westminster in 1834.
The Birth Index reference for Elizabeth Mary Ellsey, daughter of Thomas and Susanna, in the Fourth Quarter of 1839 at Marylebone, London 1a 178.
We have a copy of the Birth Certificate.
The father was Thomas William Ellsey and the mother was Susan Ellsey formerly Maccawley. Thomas is described as a Painter. The informant was Susan Ellsey, the mother, of 14 Capland Street, Marylebone, Middlesex, who made her mark on Sunday, 8 December 1839.
On the 1851 Census, there is an entry for Thomas Wm Paulo who is living with his wife, Susanna and their daughter Elizabeth who is stated to be 11. Both parents are recorded as being 35 and the family address is 5 Little Park Lane, Marylebone. Thomas and Elizabeth were shown as being born in Marylebone and Susanna in Arles, France (BS). Thomas is described as a Master Painter.
There is an entry on the 1861 census for a Thomas W Paulo aged 7 who is stated to be the son of Thomas Paulo (45) and Susan Paulo (45). Both Thomases are said to have been born in Marylebone, while Susan is said to have been born in France, Arle. Thomas senior is said to be a plumber and painter. It seems possible that this entry refers to Thomas William Paulo Place who seems to be staying/living with his maternal grandparents. They are residing at 1 Thornton Place Marylebone.
We found that the Ellsey's often used their middle 'circus' name Paulo as a surname as can be seen in the 1861 census.
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