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piggolo
22-05-2009, 7:23 PM
Do you remember I asked for help last weekend because I couldn’t find the birth of my gt.grandfather Thomas Henry Ward? I very much appreciate the help and comments I received and it looks highly likely that the birth details below for Thomas Henry Chapman are correct. Thank you you clever lot !! |bowdown|

(Previous string title: Missing Date of Birth)

TH Chapman appears to have been raised in a Ward household with a Thomas Ward as head and perhaps when asked his fathers name he uses Thomas Ward because he doesn’t know who his own father is. At sometime he would also adopt the Ward surname to become TH Ward. I don’t have absolute proof but it does look highly likely since TH Chapman seems to disappear and there is no trace of the correct TH Ward birth. The birth date includes a time which seems to indicate a twin and there is an obvious candidate.

I haven’t had chance to get to the library yet but I’m concerned that Sarah Chapman is not going to be an easy name to trace. I don’t know how old she is and since the birth date is halfway between census’s I’m not sure if I can pick her up before or after. Also, where is the twin? There is lots to do but ultimately it may be based on best guesses. If any of you have any further thoughts, comments or brilliant brainwaves, I’d be delighted to hear from you.


Column No. : 417
Date : January 3rd 1865 6:30pm Carlton (perfect)
Name : Thomas Henry (boy)
Father : none given
Mother : Sarah Chapman
Name & Residence of informant : Sarah Chapman, Carlton
Registered : 18th January 1865


It looks like he may be a twin and John William Chapman looks a likely brother.
Incidentally, my mother is a twin !!

emeltee
22-05-2009, 7:52 PM
Hi,
FreeBMD shows the births as follows

Chapman John William Mar 1865 Worksop 7b 35
Chapman Thomas Henry Mar 1865 Worksop 7b 35

Emeltee

Mona
22-05-2009, 8:20 PM
Hi Piggolo, another weekend in Carlton!

This Sarah Chapman may be a candidate. Living in Carlton in 1861 census.
Age 13, nurse (? at 13), born Lillington Derbyshire, address: Costhorpe, North Carlton. In a house with a number of servants.
RG9,2420,folio23, page 5

piggolo
22-05-2009, 8:29 PM
Good to see you back..... you're a star !!

I'll see if I can spot her birth but I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to prove (without doubt) that any birth is the correct one. What do you think?

Mona
22-05-2009, 8:45 PM
Think we need to track this Sarah forward. Also where is the twin? Couldnt see a death, at a quick glance.
I am sure the cavalry will arrive later, I am off to eat and have a glass or two of red!...

piggolo
22-05-2009, 8:51 PM
I tried BMD for a death but didn't see an obvious one. Again, the name isn't very helpful.

I guess Sarah might marry very quickly so we may be unlucky with the timing of the next census. I looked at the Carlton Census website but absolutely no Chapman families.

I was really hoping Thomas would have "easy" parents but looks like I might be out of luck. oh well !

AdeleE
22-05-2009, 11:26 PM
Well, that birth certificate didn't make things any easier, did it?

I think that we have two tasks:
- to try to connect the Sarah Chapman on the birth certificate to the Ward family.
- to research the Sarah Chapman, servant, that Mona found living in Carlton.

The worst case scenario is that Sarah Chapman was an unrelated servant around 1865 in the Ward household & left the child behind.

A few glasses of red may help.

Adele

piggolo
23-05-2009, 9:15 AM
Now then, who was it that came up with the possible Chapman solution? It's brilliant to have you onboard again Adele.... but please don't make it too complicated. I can't cope !!!!

I'm hoping to get a free trial of ancestry on Monday so I can react a little quicker and see what you're all looking at. Meanwhile it's a bit of a struggle.

I'm a bit disappointed with the certificate (I kind of expected it though) but if we could identify Sarah and the twin then that would be great. Do you think there'd be any way to link them to the Ward's ? I'm going to try their addresses but beyond that, I'm not sure what we could do.

I'll be online late tonight but hopefully can dedicate loads of time tomorrow and Monday. Keep watching !!!!!!

Mona
23-05-2009, 10:03 AM
From 1861 Census, Carlton, Sarah Chapman's place of birth is Lullington, Derby.
There is an extracted christening on IGI: 11 July 1847, Lullington, Derbyshire; parents John Chapman and Christina. FreeBMD birth Sep 1847, Burton on Trent (RD for lullingtion), vol 17 but page number illegible.
1851 Census there is a John Chapman and wife Christiana with a Sarah age 3 in Derbyshire. (have not seen the details)

christanel
23-05-2009, 10:24 AM
1851 HO107/2011/581/13
Address; Lady Leys
John Chapman 29 Ag lab born Wadworth Yorkshire
Christiana 24 born Ranby Nottinghamshire
Sarah 3 born Lullington
Samuel Allsbrook 17 and Joseph Gilbert 15 both Farming servants and both born Lullington.
Christina

christanel
23-05-2009, 10:32 AM
1861 RG9/2420/28/15
address The Cross Carlton
John and Christiana with daughter Elizabeth age 5 born Ranskill Nottinghamshire.
Also Henry Wombwell or Wombwelt 16 Ag Lab born Carlton Notts.
All details for John and Christiana match 1861 census.

Mona
23-05-2009, 10:41 AM
In 1861, the head of household at Costhorpe, where Sarah is employed as "nurse", is Jeremiah Spurr, who farms 365 acres, employing 8 Labourers, 6 boys. Perhaps Thomas Henry Ward worked on this farm, as he was an ag. lab.

piggolo
23-05-2009, 9:13 PM
Can we really be sure whether this is the correct Sarah Chapman ?

I guess if we can't find any better candidates then it is more likely but there may always b a niggle in the back of the mind. Also, I guess we have to track them forwards to see what happens.

I'm hoping to have more time for clue searching tomorrow. Have a good evening folks....