1881 Census Manchester

[Barbara Wilkinson]

My grandfather - always known as JOSHUA NAYLOR - was born JOSHUA OWEN on 4 June 1878, address on his birth certificate given as 7 Jacksons Row Manchester. His birth certificate gives his father's name as GEORGE OWEN, and his mother as MARY OWEN, formerly NAYLOR.

I have searched fruitlessly for him on the 1881, 1901 census indexes (equally fruitless search for his parents' marriage!).

If anyone could look up the address 7 Jacksons Row, Manchester on the 1881 census and tell me who was living there then - it might just throw some light on the subject - I cannot think of another way to go!!!

[Clive Blackaby]

Dwelling: No 7 Jacksons Row
Census Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Source: FHL Film 1341952 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3990 Folio 49 Page 8
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John WRIGHT M 28 M Manchester
Rel: Head
Occ: Calender Man 17/5
Sarah WRIGHT M 30 F Manchester
Rel: Wife
Occ: Umbrella Maker
Sarah Ann WRIGHT 6 m F Manchester
Rel: Daur
Mary Elizabeth BURYON (WRIGHT) 7 F Manchester
Rel: Step (Daur)
Occ: Scholar
-----------------------
Dwelling: 7 Jacksons Row
Census Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Source: FHL Film 1341952 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3990 Folio 49 Page 8
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James JOHNSON W 42 M Manchester
Rel: Head
Occ: General Labourer
Mary Ann HUMPHRYS M 34 F Manchester
Rel: Niece
Occ: Dress Maker
--------------------------
Dwelling: 7 Jacksons Row
Census Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Source: FHL Film 1341952 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3990 Folio 49 Page 8
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Ann HESKETH 24 F Manchester
Rel: Widow (Head)
Occ: Milliner
--------------------------
Dwelling: 7 Jacksons Row
Census Place: PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3990 Folio 49 Page 8
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James JOHNSON W 42 M Manchester
Rel: Head
Occ: General Labourer
Mary Ann HUMPHRYS M 34 F Manchester
Rel: Niece
Occ: Dress Maker
--------------------------
Dwelling: 7 Jacksons Row
Census Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Source: FHL Film 1341952 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3990 Folio 49 Page 8
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Ann HESKETH 24 F Manchester
Rel: Widow (Head)
Occ: Milliner
--------------------------
Dwelling: 7 Jacksons Row
Census Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Source: FHL Film 1341952 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3990 Folio 49 Page 8
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
George HARWOOD M 57 M Manchester
Rel: Head
Occ: Fustian Cutter
Margret HARWOOD M 37 F Manchester
Rel: Wife
Occ: Fustian Cutter
Margret HARWOOD 14 F Manchester
Rel: Daur
Occ: Fustian Cutter
Hugh Thos. HARWOOD 11 M Manchester
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Squire HARWOOD 10 M Manchester
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
George HARWOOD 6 M Manchester
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Caroline HARWOOD 3 F Manchester
Rel: Daur
Alice HARWOOD 1 sp;Manchester, Lancashire, England
Source: FHL Film 1341952 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3990 Folio 49 Page 8
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
George HARWOOD M 57 M Manchester
Rel: Head
Occ: Fustian Cutter
Margret HARWOOD M 37 F Manchester
Rel: Wife
Occ: Fustian Cutter
Margret HARWOOD 14 F Manchester
Rel: Daur
Occ: Fustian Cutter
Hugh Thos. HARWOOD 11 M Manchester
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Squire HARWOODGIN: 0px">Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Caroline HARWOOD 3 F Manchester
Rel: Daur
Alice HARWOOD 1 sp;Manchester, Lancashire, England
Source: FHL Film 1341952 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3990 Folio 49 Page 8
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
George HARWOOD M 57 M Manchester
Rel: Head
Occ: Fustian Cutter
Margret HARWOOD M 37 F Manchester
Rel: Wife
Occ: Fustian Cutter
Margret HARWOOD 14 F Manchester
Rel: Daur
Occ: Fustian Cutter
Hugh Thos. HARWOOD 11 M Manchester
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Squire HARWOOD 10 M Manchester
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
George HARWOOD 6 M Manchester
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Caroline HARWOOD 3 F Manchester
Rel: Daur
Alice HARWOOD 1 F Manchester
Rel: Daur

[Barbara Wilkinson]

Many thanks - not a name I recognise, and many more people than I expected at that address!!

At least it rules the address out - back to the drawing board; I am completely at a loss as to where to go next!!!

I appreciate your taking the time and trouble - and so promptly too! Thanks again!

[uksearch]

This seems to be a bit of a sticky problem. You are basing your search on the facts from a birth certificate.Is the cerificate the original one or is it a handwritten copy? If it is a handwritten copy you need to check the details with RO.
Another possibility is that whoever registered the birth gave incorrect details.When my ggm registered the birth of her third child Thomas Eaton,she gave the father's name as Henry EATON and her name as Catherine EATON formerly GOWAN nee FREEMAN.There was never a marriage betweeen her and Henry EATON.
In the 1901 Census her first two children (GOWAN's) were listed as McQUINNs and whe she married McQuinn a few years earlier she called herself McGOWAN.
That mess took a long time to sort out.


UK

[Jo Simpsons]

I have just been trying to see if I could see your family on 1881. Do you know if there were any brothers or sisters?

Not to try and confuse things more I found an odd entry, RG11/4007 Folio 60 Page 18
15, Susan St. Manchester
John Owen, Head, 39
Sarah Owen, Wife, 38
Ellen j Naylor, Wife, 19
William Naylor, Head, 20
Sarah B Owen, daur, 9
Elizabeth Owen, daur, 5
Jane Owen, daur, 2
Jane Naylor, daur, 2

Jo:confused:

[Peter Goodey]

It's a very odd thing but the transcription shows:

John OWEN Head M Male 39 Wolverhampton, Stafford, England Moulder In Foundry
Sarah A. OWEN Wife M Female 38 Wolverhampton, Stafford, England Stoner (Artzn)
Ellen J. NAYLOR Wife (Daur) M Female 19 Wolverhampton, Stafford, England Fine Jack Tenter
William NAYLOR Son In Law M Male 20 Manchester, Lancashire, England Weed Turner (Wood)
Sarah E. OWEN Daur Female 9 Manchester, Lancashire, England Scholar
Elizabeth OWEN Daur Female 5 Manchester, Lancashire, England Scholar
Jane OWEN Daur Female 2 Manchester, Lancashire, England
Jane E. NAYLOR Daur Female 2 Manchester, Lancashire, England
Edward HUNPHES Boarder M Male 21 Wolverhampton, Stafford, England Moulder In Foundry

I assume you're doing it the expensive way (looking at the image) and that you're right. Odd though how the transcription can be significantly different in terms of the relationships.
Although on the face of it it's not the right family, it would probably be worth pursuing, if only in the hope of finding a clue somewhere along the way.

[Jo Simpsons]

Hi Peter,

I have just sent you the census so you can see.

Do you have Joshua or his parents on any census?
Jo :)

[Peter Goodey]

Well, I did say I thought you were right, Jo!

Thanks for the image which is perfectly clear and confirms, as I expected it would, that you were right.;)

I'm just surprised about the transcription on the FamilySearch site. It's not just a simple transcription error, it's a case of the transcriber adding his or her own guesswork about the real nature of the relationships. Wierd. And naughty!

[Barbara Wilkinson]

Thanks to all of you for the help and suggestions! The problem gets worse ..! How I wish I had asked more questions - or that my mother had - since I was only 11 when he died!!

This is the man who took me to feed the ducks - but whose birth certificate I could not find until I contacted the Post Office Archives - and they gave me the information that he at one time used the name Owen - but I cannot get any further forward!! I keep putting him aside to work on other lines, as it is so frustrating ... but maybe one day ....!!

[Barbara Wilkinson]

I am resurrecting this thread - although the title is no longer accurate - because I have found out a little more about a family that may – or may not – be connected to my grandfather – and I am hoping that someone out there may be able to help!


RG12/3237 page 4

Halliwell Buildings, Lad Lane
James Naylor head single 30 b Birkenhead Labourer at a brewery
Elizabeth Naylor sister single 27 b Birkenhead Housekeeper Dom
Joshua Naylor brother single 13 b Manchester Scholar
John Naylor brother single 11 b Manchester Scholar
Mary E Naylor sister single 2 b Manchester

This “Joshua” fits my grandfather as far as his age is concerned; and is the only one I have found that is remotely correct!

Continued in part 2 because of problem with repeating text

[Barbara Wilkinson]

Mary E Naylor pops up again in 1901, living as the daughter of William and Elizabeth Timms (RG13/3746 page 43), which seems to suggest she is the daughter of Elizabeth, not the sister, and this is confirmed from her birth certificate showing her as the daughter of Elizabeth Naylor, father unknown.

I have the marriage certificate of Elizabeth and William Timms, at St Stephens, Hulme. I was hoping that if Elizabeth’s father and “my” Joshua’s father matched, I would have a connection – but no!

“My” Joshua was married twice and on both marriage certificates quotes his father’s name as George Naylor, stone mason, deceased. Never a hint of Mr Owen anywhere – see the opening post!


Elizabeth’s father is Joshua Naylor – but … ! His profession is “mason”, which may be a connection.
(You can see that we are well past the “clutching at straws” scenario here …!)

I have just come across the marriage of Mary E Naylor – again at St Stephens, Hulme – to a Robert Lomax in 1907, so my question is – does this link into anyone’s family, and if it does, is there a real link to “my” Joshua – or am I just clutching at straws! This has been a thorny problem for so long ……!

[Barbara Wilkinson]

If a moderator is watching and could close this thread, I would be grateful! I started a new one - and should hate anyone to stumble across this and start looking for information - it is being picked to pieces on the OK - I have had enough thread on the Brickwalls forum! If - unlike Pam Downes - I had followed the instructions given - I could have linked properly - but I haven't - I'll try that another time!! Thanks!