Dowds in Portsea Gaol...

[Dowd]

Hi all.
Could anyone find any info on 2 people from the 1871 census in Portsea for me?
They are Patrick and Edward Dowd.I'm unsure if they are related but I think they are both in Portsea Island gaol.
Thank expectantly,
Dowd...|bowdown|

[Procat]

Can you supply year and place of birth please or the RG reference that you found them on.

[birdlip]

Edward Dowd is in the Borough Gaol. It's terrible writing, A******y has him down as 13! However it's 23 on the original, inmate b Derbyshire, I can't read the name of the town, or his occupation...mariner? Someone else might want to have a look and see what they can make of it. [RG10/1135/F56/P25]

Patrick Dowd is a tailor, 47, b Ireland, living at 21 York Place, Portsmouth,with his wife Ann, also 47 and b Ireland, and their son William, 11 b Portsmouth. [RG10/1133/F4/3 P32]

So, not related I would think.

[Procat]

Thanks Birdlip,

The image on FMP is far better.

I think Edward is a Marine, Age 23, Born Derby, Derbyshire.

[Dowd]

Cheers for that.
I have both a Patrick and an Edward in my tree. I thought they may be related because the Patrick in my tree is Edward's uncle.
Edward in my tree was born in either Derby or Ireland c 1845 (some confusion on census' of 1851 and 1861 but most probably Ireland ) and Patrick was born in Ireland c1816 (brother of James) according to 1851 census.
Dowd

[Geoffers]

I have both a Patrick and an Edward in my tree. I thought they may be related because the Patrick in my tree is Edward's uncle.
Edward in my tree was born in either Derby or Ireland c 1845 (some

This TNA catalogue entry (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?SearchInit=0&txtsearchterm=edward+dowd&txtfirstdate=&txtlastdate=&txtrestriction=ADM157&hdnsorttype=Reference&image1.x=26&image1.y=5) might refer to the Edward DOWD who was banged up in the 1871 census

[Dowd]

Thanks for the link.
If you had to would you say he is Edward Hunt by birth and assuming the surname Dowd?
I'm intrigued.....
Dowd

[Geoffers]

If you had to would you say he is Edward Hunt by birth and assuming the surname Dowd?

Just on the entry from the catalogue, I wouldn't say even if I did have to - there just isn't enough to go on...............sorry.

[Dowd]

Ok, cheers....
Don't know if you could tell me what road to go down now?

The Edward in my tree started in Derby(1851/61),then on to Mansfield(1881) and Lincolnshire(1884) where he married.I need to confirm if this Edward is 'my' Edward.
That will be a challenge.

[Geoffers]

The Edward in my tree started in Derby(1851/61),then on to Mansfield(1881) and Lincolnshire(1884) where he married.I need to confirm if this Edward is 'my' Edward. That will be a challenge.

You could try viewing the document at Kew to see if it gives any inkling as to whether or not this is you chap. Having been in Derbyshire in 1851 and 1861 - would there have been any reason for Edward to go to Portsmouth?

I can find his siblings, Catherine (RG10/3571 f39 p15), Patrick (RG10.3563 f31 p18), Mary (RG10/3571 f43 p24) in Derby in 1871 - were his parents also in Derby?

Have you had any luck just searching by initials in case JD, MD or ED were in a workhouse, asylum or prison in 1871?

As for Partick the uncle, there are several possibilities born 1816 +/- 5 years in botht he 1861 and 1871 census. But bearing in mind the frequency of the name and lack of verifiable detail it is not possible to point to one with any certainty.

[Dowd]

I came upon this Edward purely by chance when I was trying to find out where mine was born after typing his name in a certain search engine.
The birthdate nearly matches and the place of birth match (according to 1861 census).
I'm aware that there could be more than one Edward Dowd around at this time,but it's the Derby connection that sort of convinces me he is mine!
If it turns out he is 'my' Edward, the irony will be that his son served in the Great War later on...

[Geoffers]

I came upon this Edward purely by chance when I was trying to find out where mine was born after typing his name in a certain search engine. The birthdate nearly matches and the place of birth match (according to 1861 census).

If I have found the correct entries
1851 HO107/2142 f562 p33 in Derby - Edward DOUD aged 6 and
1861 RG9/2498 f112 p8 in Derby - Edward DOUD aged 15

both these census entries do record consistent ages, but also both record him as born in Ireland.

As opposed to the 1871 census in Pompey giving a birthplace as Derby and a birthyear of 1848 - granted that an explanation could be made for both the birthplace and year differences.

To follow the route, I think you will need to get the RM record found as a starter. Whilst it may be your chap, there is an equal chance that it may not be him.

I feel obliged to point out (for the sake of balance) that there are other Edward DOUD/DOWD entries in the 1871 census of roughly the right age and born in Ireland who may also be worth considering.

[Dowd]

Cheers Geoffers.
But what is the RM record and how would I get hold of it?

[Geoffers]

Cheers Geoffers.
But what is the RM record and how would I get hold of it?

RM = Royal Marines

The record is shown on TNA's catalogue, see the link in message no.6, above.

You can go to The National Archives to view it, or request a copy from TNA (for a fee).

[Dowd]

Thanks for your help Geoffers.
I'm going to contact the NA.
Regards
Dowd.

[Dowd]

Got the relevant documents from TNA yesterday.
An interesting document.
Only problem is I can't read it!!
The writing is done in italics so I can only read a few lines.
Was serving in the army compulsory in the 1870's?

[Geoffers]

Got the relevant documents from TNA yesterday.
An interesting document.
Only problem is I can't read it!!

If you received the documents by post - can you scan and post the difficult bits on photobucket and give us a link to it?

If you recieved the documents by digital express, give us the link to download it and we'll see if we can help


Was serving in the army compulsory in the 1870's?

No, conscription did not begin until WW1.

[Dowd]

I got them by post but don't have a scanning facility....
I'll see if I can borrow the office scanner tomorrow..
Like I say though, interesting looking document.

[Dowd]

Page 2 says "states he is a deserter from the Royal Artillery".
Page 3 says" my real name is Edward Dowd. I am a deserter from the 14th Brigade.I deserted at Newcastle about 2 years ago after a service of 2 years.My regimental number was 364(?).I belonged to j(?) battery."

This man called himself Edward Hunt before being 'found out'.


Looks like it was dated 1875.
Dowd.

[Geoffers]

I got them by post but don't have a scanning facility....

..........or digital camera??


I'll see if I can borrow the office scanner tomorrow..

I'm sure that they won't mind.

[Dowd]

I've taken a photo, how do I include it ??

[Geoffers]

I've sent you a pm

[Dowd]

Cheers Geoffers.
Did you recieve my email?

[Geoffers]

Nothing has come through my end. Give it another go.

[Geoffers]

Colonel Commanding Depot RM
By the Commissioners for executing the Office of Lord High Admiral of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; &c

To Company Sergeant Major Robert PENNICK R M L I

You are hereby required and direted forthwithto proceed with the escort Copl? (Corporal?) mar..? of Royal Marines under your command according to the annexed Route from Deal to Woolwich and conduct to No.2 corps there Pte HUNT @ Gunner DOWD a deserter from I/14 Brigade Royal Artillery by G E Railway and return by like route when no longer required.

And all Her Majesties Justices of the Peace, Constables, and other Civil Officers, whom it may concern, are hereby required to be assisting unto you in providing Quarters, Impressing Carriages, and otherwise as there shall be occasion.

Given unto out hands the 18 January 1875 at Walmer


The resolution on the photo is not sufficient to make out the remaining two words with absolute certainty.

[Dowd]

Cheers Geoffers.
The 4th paragraph sounds like gobbledegook to me!
I suppose the next step would be to contact the relevant army archives for more details.
I appreciate your help,
Andrew.

[Geoffers]

The 4th paragraph sounds like gobbledegook to me!

It's basically saying that he can ask for help and those named are expected to provide it. So for example, if for any reason the journey could not be completed as scheduled, he could go to the local police station and request that the prisoner be detained whilst alternative arrangements were made; or the police might be asked to provide transport.