Joseph Newman, Walsall/Wolverhampton 1817

[M_Ryan]

Looking for the ancestry of Joseph Newman, b. 1817, through William, Joseph and William all of Walsall. I have his wife as Elizabeth Mainwaring but I think that is an error. FreeBMD list 4 couples with marriages registered in Walsall in Sep 1843 (V 17 p 211), among the grooms is William Newman. The choices for bride are Jane Darby, Ann Hyde, Harriet Nicholls and Frances Watson. I cannot find any other information from my side of the pond to sort them out. Can anyone be of assistance? Thank you very much in advance,

Mark

[Waitabit]

Family Search IGI has a member submitted account of a Joseph Newman b. 1809-1814. Willenhall 4plus miles from Walsall, which may have been the Registration district.

Parents SAmuel Newman & Ann Colby

Married 1843 to Elizabeth HUGHES

pts Joseph & Ann Partridge.

Joseph died 1877 SAlt LAke City UTAH.

children: Samuel, John, Ann, William, Joseph, James & Thomas Samuel.
perhaps this is your Family


1851 census
Class: HO107; Piece: 2020; Folio: 307; Page: 4;

[M_Ryan]

I've seen that reference and don't think it is the right crowd. Thanks much.

I did appreciate learning that Willenhall is just down the road since I have seen so many Newman references for that area.

Mark

[samgibbons56]

Looking for the ancestry of Joseph Newman, b. 1817, through William, Joseph and William all of Walsall. I have his wife as Elizabeth Mainwaring but I think that is an error. FreeBMD list 4 couples with marriages registered in Walsall in Sep 1843 (V 17 p 211), among the grooms is William Newman. The choices for bride are Jane Darby, Ann Hyde, Harriet Nicholls and Frances Watson. I cannot find any other information from my side of the pond to sort them out. Can anyone be of assistance? Thank you very much in advance,

Mark
Hello Mark,
There is a marriage in Wolverhampton 1834 for a Joseph Newman to an Elizabeth Hughes here and another in 1835 to a Sarah Reed.
www.freereg.org.uk
Wolverhampton is pretty well covered and there are some Walsall entries so worth a look.
Hope this helps
Regards
Sam
Just realised in my haste that Joseph would have only been a child for these dates, but you may find others at the site Sam

[janbooth]

This looks as if it could be him in the 1871 census of Walsall, and if it is, he is certainly married to an Elizabeth:

RG10/2965, folio 86, page 34
Turner's Building

Joseph NEWMAN Head Mar 54 Plater Walsall Stafford
Elizabeth do Wife Mar 53 Laundress do do
Jane do Daur Unm 27 Bridle Stitcher do do
Emily do Daur Unm 24 Laundress do do
Clara do Daur Unm 3 do do
Joseph do Grandson Unm 10 do do
Henry TILSLEY Relative Unm 16 Brass Founder do do
Lizzie do do do 8 Scholar do do
Emma do Visitor Unm 34 Domestic Servant do do

Looks like Elizabeth could have been his second wife, as in the 1861 census of Walsall Joseph is shown thus:

RG9/2017, folio 62, page 3
14 Little London

Joseph NEWMAN Head Un 45 Harness Plater Stafford Walsall
Jane do Daur Un 17 Harness Coverer do do
Emily do Daur Un 14 do do do do

And in the 1851 census of Walsall:

HO107/2023, folio 63, page 55
Little London

Joseph NEWMAN Head Widower 34 Plater Staffordsh Walsall
Jane do Daur 7 Scholar do do
Elizabeth do Mother Widow 70 do do
George do Nephew 13 Brass Dresser do do

Your best bet to find out the correct original marriage for Joseph, is to send for Jane's birth certificate which is registered in the March qtr 1844 at Walsall reg district, vol 17, page 278 according to FreeBMD. This will then give you the maiden name of her mother which should make tracing Joseph's first marriage much easier.

His second marriage looks to have been registered in the December qtr 1865 at Walsall, vol 6b, page 1010 to an Elizabeth TILSLEY which fits in very well with the relatives' names in the 1871 census.

HTH

Janet

[M_Ryan]

Thank you very much Janet. This does seem to be a good fit and the second marriage also explains the rather large gap that had caused me some concern. I am tracing the family through Ellen Newman born 1872 so just after the census but consistent with the new family structure.

Appreciate you kind and thorough assistance, Mark

[M_Ryan]

I sit here with significant egg on my face and a lot of embarassment. If I am asking people to help me with my digging, I should get my facts straight first. I crossed locations between my grandfathers maternal line with his paternal line. It is the paternal line in Walsall and the maternal, Newman, line in Wolverhampton - wrong W.S. on the pedigree! I apologize for having you spend considerable effort barking up the wrong ancestral tree.

[M_Ryan]

Here is the Newman line I am having trouble with.

Ellen Newman, b. 1872 to Joseph Newman and Ellen Sambrook. I have that covered.

Joseph Newman, b. 1847 in Wolverhampton to William Newman and Elizabeth ?

William Newman, b. 1817 in Wolverhampton to Joseph Newman and Ann Powell. I have that covered.

The difficulty I am having is Elizabeth.

FreeReg has 3 children of William - locksmith - and Elizabeth Newman, Mary b. 1845, Joseph b. 1847 and Samuel b. 1851. There is also a marriage between William Newman - son of the locksmith G? Newman - and Elizabeth Cosby in Wolverhampton in Jan 1847, the only one anywhere near close. Puts Mary's birth in question.
Can't quite put my finger on the right connection although the Cosby marriage looks very plausible other than the date. Might it be a trancsription error? Can't find anything else on Elizabeth Cosby so far.

Color coded to keep track of the players!

[janbooth]

This looks like the family in the 1861 census of Wolverhampton:

RG9/1992, folio 29, page 17
Lower Stafford Street

William NEWMAN Head Mar 44 Jobing Smith W'hampton Staffordshire
Betsy do Wife Mar 41 Birmingham
Sarah Ann do Daur Un 18 London
Joseph do Son Un 17 W'hampton do
Mary Ann COOK Lodger Un 23 Boot Binder do do
Martha do Lodger 3 do do

Can't find them in the 1851 census at the moment but will keep looking

Janet

[janbooth]

This looks like William & Elizabeth in the 1871 census of Tettenhall, Staffs:

RG10/2927, folio 19, page 18
Aldersley Lane

William NEWMAN Head Mar 54 Doorspring Maker Staffordsh Wolverhampton
Elizabeth do Wife Mar 54 Warwicksh Birmingham
Joseph do Son Mar 24 Doorspring Maker Staffordsh Wolverhampton
Ellen do Daughter in law 24 do do
Sarah E do Grandaughter 1 month do Tettenhall

There are 2 birth registrations for a Joseph NEWMAN on FreeBMD, one in March qtr 1845 at Wolverhampton, vol 17, page 340 and the other in the September qtr 1847 at Wolverhampton reg district, vol 17, page 348. Given that Joseph's date of birth is shown in most census records as c1847, I would plump for the 1847 one first, specifying his father's name as William, and that will give you the maiden name of his mother.

Janet

[M_Ryan]

This is a good reference I have not seen before. Thank you very much.

I think this is a different family than the 1861 census family - Joseph's age is off by 7 years. I had that on confused as well and had to change my records.

FreeBMD and FreeReg do not list Elizabeth's maiden name so I have to dig elsewhere.

Appreciate your assistance,
Mark

[janbooth]

Mark,

Do not dismiss the family I gave you in the 1871 census out of hand. Joseph's age is only out by 3 years and that really is not very much as regards ages in census records. If you accept that the family in the 1861 census is likely to be yours, then the 1871 census family tallies very well. You also know that your Joseph married an Ellen - the 1871 census Joseph is married to an Ellen with daughter Sarah E and this same family is in the 1881 census of Aston, where Joseph's age is now shown as 33 and a Door Spring Maker, with wife Ellen, daughter Sarah A E and more children including an Ellen, born c1873, which again tallies very well with your Joseph.

As regards the birth references I gave you, you will have to purchase the birth certificate online via the GRO (www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/) using the references I gave you from FreeBMD and the actual birth certificate will give you the maiden name of Joseph's mother.

HTH

Janet

[M_Ryan]

To thank those who offered me assistance, and anyone else who may be chasing this line, I will share what I have found although cannot completely verify.
There were 3 William Newmans, all about the same age and all living within a couple of streets of each other. One was a carpenter so I could rule him out early. One was a doorspring maker employing 8 men and 2 boys. The last was a jobing smith. All this I believe in the 61 census.
In the 71 census, William the jobing smith apparently is working for William the doorspring maker, who now employs 10 men and 3 boys, as a doorspring maker. So there are 2 William Newman, doorspring makers, living within a few hundred yards of each other. And they are probably related as well but I haven't even looked for that link.
Joseph is the son of William the doorspring maker who employed William the jobing smith, and started his own doorspring making business in a nearby town.
It's no wonder this stuff drives a soul to drink!|5cups|
Mark Ryan

[janbooth]

Wouldn't it be nice if our ancestors could come up with really original names so as not to confuse us. At least you have unravelled some of your knots, Mark, so have another drink (vbg) and try to untangle the remainder. I could wish that my SMITH line were more original than John, son of John, son of John (I think!!) - why couldn't they have named my ancestor PHEASANT as one of the SMITH family in Peterborough did - now that's a lot easier to research!!

Good luck with the rest of it - you may need a few more stiff drinks before much longer.

Janet