Dumb question on death certs

[Peggy]

OK, I'm moving to the back of the class and putting on the dunce cap. Will someone please |help|

I have a death cert for an ancestor from the Birmingham RO. The informant is shown as the Coroner. The cause of death, according to doctors I asked, makes no sense. Now, thanks to a wonderful person at the Brum Library, I have what information she could manage to read from a poor film of inquest reports. The cause of death is different. The verdict of the jury is closer to what is on the cert, but on the cert it is bassackwards.

What I'm trying to figure out is who filled out the cert I have in my hands? Am I looking at what someone wrote at the time (1869), or at what someone copied when I requested the cert? I'd thought it was the former, but was I wrong?

Either way, should I now start wondering about the accuracy of other certs?

:eek:

Peggy

[Mandie]

What I'm trying to figure out is who filled out the cert I have in my hands? Am I looking at what someone wrote at the time (1869), or at what someone copied when I requested the cert? I'd thought it was the former, but was I wrong?

Either way, should I now start wondering about the accuracy of other certs?
Peggy

In my experience there seems to be certificates written by the current registrar, typed certificates and photostat versions (where you get a photocopy of the original onto a new style certificate). The only true original certificates I have are ones the family had in their possession.

I've have certificates with mistakes in them, one arrived with a note from the registrar explaining they couldn't spell an ancestors name when copying it from the original and had done the best they could. (If only they could have photocopied the original :() Another typed one of a birth in 1874 has two typos of 1974 on it!!

I would perhaps query the certificate with the issuer and ask if it's possible to check the details again. That's what I'm planning to do with my 'wrong' ones. I'd be interested to hear more people's opinions on this, though.

[Rod Neep]

A certified copy of an entry in a birth marriage or death register is a legally issued document.

Therefore it should be a) correct and b) checked and certified by a registrar who then signs it.

However, it appears that the GRO has become a victim of its own success, and transcriptions of the original registers are not being made accurately, and also not being certified (checked) correctly before they are signed by the registrar.

There are a lot of examples like this!

Send it back! With a complaint. They have charged you for a legal document which is blatantly and obviously, incorrect.

Rod

[Peggy]

Thanks to all for the replies and advice.

The more I stare at the cert, the more I believe that I'm looking at a photocopy. There are quite different handwritings and pens in use, one on the form with the info, the other below and dated in the 21st century. As I got it from the local RO, I suspect that errors are down to the 1869 registrar. Possibly he couldn't make out, or fit, the cause of death supplied by the coroner, so came up with the version that appears.

This has been enlightening, and I think I'd best see if there is any more to learn about the inquest on my other relative, who died in 1900 of "Syncope. Natural Causes." Is that really what the coroner said? :)

Regards,

Peggy

[Wirral]

Hi Peggy
According to our medical dictionary, syncope is a loss of consciousness due to a fall in blood pressure. Goodness know what "bassackwards" is! Sounds painful, anyway!

[Peggy]

Hi Wirral,

Doctors tell me that "syncope" is not a "cause" of death. More along the lines of "stopped breathing" or "heart stopped beating" or "visitation of God." I found the addition of "Natural Causes" interesting. Suggesting that there was a doubt? She was 42 when she suffered this fatal faint. Her mother lived to 73, her sister to 76.

In case you aren't pulling my leg, or it is an Americanism, bassackwards wasn't on the cert. :) It was my term for the muddled up version of the coroner's report that was on the cert.

Cheers,

Peggy

[Peggy]

Hi Mythology,

I'm afraid I don't follow. :confused:

Col. 6 has "Syncope. Natural causes." Neither is a cause. I take "natural causes" to mean not murder or suicide or accident. And it sounds more likely to be the "jury verdict." (On that 1869 cert, the coroner's "cause" and the "jury verdict" were shortened & combined to make a nonsense.)

She lost consciousness. She's dead. They held an inquest. I'm now wondering if the coroner came up with a medical cause that isn't on the cert.

Regards,

Peggy

[Wirral]

Hi Peggy
Only know what syncope is as last week I got copy of the death certificate for my father's half sister. she died in 1897.

Cause of death:
Pneumonia acute 10 days syncope suddenly as cert. by J. Cable.

As the doctor had been in attendance there was no inquest. So sad, it says she died at half past midnight & she was only 4 years old.

[Wirral]

Hi again
Looked again at Medical dictionary. Syncope can be a symptom of Addison's Disease (causes destruction of the adrenal cortex). According to the book "Although the destruction of the adrenal cortex in Addison's original description was due to tuberculosis, a much more common cause today is auto-immune damage". As TB was so prevalent before the 1940s, this may be the cause of death. Did it mention "phthisis"? This was another term used when people died of TB - it means wasting.
Must put this book down, can feel hypochondria coming on!

[Lindad]

I'm not sure that this will help in this particular case, but there's a brilliant website called Archaic Medical Terms which I use all the time. :)

http://www.paul_smith.doctors.org.uk/ArchaicMedicalTerms.htm

Medical terminology has changed over the years, and death certificates quite often included things that would seem very strange today!

The webmaster is also extremely helpful. If you have an illness or cause of death that doesn't appear on his lists, email him and he'll get back to you.

[Peggy]

Hi Lindad,

The site does indeed help in this case, as it addresses the question of whether syncope can be a "cause of death." Great link! Thanks.

Hi Mythology,

Three doctors told me that it doesn't pass the giggle test. It means that the person lost consciousness, and one would want to know the cause of that. They opined that when found on an old cert it meant "I haven't got a clue." :)

Peggy