Revenue Officer

[Lily]

I have received my great great grandfathers marriage certificate today. John Chellens Bennett married Esther Morgan in 1848. His occupation is listed as Officer in HM Customs and states his address as 'on board of the Lion Revene Cutter stationed at Dover'. Would there be any records with HM customs of his employment still in existence? Also does the address listed mean he lived on a ship? I want to be able to find out where he was from so I can trace his birth and then trace the family further.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Geoffers]

I have received my great great grandfathers marriage certificate today. John Chellens Bennett married Esther Morgan in 1848. His occupation is listed as Officer in HM Customs and states his address as 'on board of the Lion Revene Cutter stationed at Dover'. Would there be any records with HM customs of his employment still in existence?
I've just responded to the similar message you posted on the certificates forum, asking if you knew his occupation. So you can ignore that bit of my response there.

Customs Officers records can be found at The National Archives at Kew. See their website http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ - to find a guide as to records available, move your cursor over 'Getting Started' in the red bar near the top of the screen, from the drop down menu select 'Index to research guides' when you get the list of guides clcik on 'c' and scroll to the bottom of that letter, you should see a guide connected with customs.

The best place to begin looking is the pension records which I believe are in document class CUST39, pay and staff lists which I think are also in CUST39 for the middle 19th century may also provide some information. sorry to sound hazy, 'tis a long time since I looked at these records.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[Guy Etchells]

From the 1881 census

Dwelling: The Gate Lodge By Barrack
Census Place: Little Warley, Essex, England
Source: FHL Film 1341423 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 1757 Folio 99 Page 6
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John BENNETT M 93 M Gt Warley, Essex, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Garden Dom
Ester BENNETT M 60 F Hundred Of Slough, Kent, England
Rel: Wife

Cheers
Guy

[Pam Downes]

Heaven forbid that I should disagree with Guy, but Guy, wiihout knowing the ages of John and Esther when they married in 1848 how can you positively say that this is the right couple?

Pam Downes

[Guy Etchells]

Please do disagree; it is discussions and debates that make the forums tick, often more is learnt from the debates than from individual questions and replies.

I can't be certain of course that the couple in the census are correct and I should have made that clear, but I was rushing a bit last night, but I do think they are the strongest possibility.
I would still therefore start my search in the Great Warley registers.

Reasoning:-message=Please do disagree; it is discussions and debates that make the forums tick, often more is learnt from the debates than from individual questions and replies.

I can't be certain of course that the couple in the census are correct and I should have made that clear, but I was rushing a bit last night, but I do think they are the strongest possibility.
I would still therefore start my search in the Great Warley registers.

Reasoning:-
The marriage was in 1848, therefore we may almost certainly disregard any entries born post 1828 (20 years old)
Search the 1881 census for Esther Bennet (wife) this gives 198 returns
Disregard any entries prior to 1800 (unlikely they married over the age of 48) these two actions reduce the returns to 27 entries.
Repeat for John.

This pre-supposses that the couple survived to the 1881 census, but when one has little to go on one has to make assumptions and then evaluate the results.
Cheers
Guy

[Lily]

Thank you for the useful information re National Archives & the 1881 census. I will update forum on where I end up next.

[Pam Downes]

You'll be pleased to know that I agree with your reasoning Guy, but to my mind it falls down when you apply it to John because unless there's a transcript error John is 93 years old, meaning that (a) he was born before 1800 and (b) he would have been 60 if he'd married in 1848. Would he have still been employed by the Revenue at that age?
As you say, your theory assumes that John and Esther are still both alive in 1881, but it also assumes that they are living within the area covered by the 1881 UK census. There could be another John and Esther living in (say)Dublin, but they will not show on the 1881 census. (well, I don't think so because when I searched PROCAT for RG11 and Dublin I got a raspberry :) )

And in this case we have a big something to go on as Lily has the marriage certificate with John and Esther's ages.
Come on Lily - spill the beans. Tell us their ages before I go mad!

Pam Downes

[Lily]

Well..... the marriage certificate states 'full age'! I have been in contact with Hampshire Records office and the helpful lady there said means they were old enough to get married. The only other possibley useful information on the marriage cert is that the father is listed as William Bennett and was also a Revenue Officer.

[Pam Downes]

Well..... the marriage certificate states 'full age'! .

|rant| |banghead| :eek:

I was so certain that an age would be given. I'm off to have a sulk :D

In that case Lily, it's Plan B - see if you can get any joy from the 1851 census in Dover in an effort to find and age and place of birth for John, in addition to Geoffer's suggestions.

Pam Downes

[Peggy]

Hello Lily,

What about children of John & Esther? Do you have the year of birth for any? We might get a clue from finding the birthplace of a child on the census, or even find John or Esther living with an adult child.

I take it the marriage was in Dover? Was it in a church? If so, perhaps parish records might give more information?

Peggy

[Lily]

They had at least one son, my great grandfather, John Arthur Bennett in 1857. This is where it gets interesting, as John Arthur was born in Ipstones, Cheddleton nr Leek.

[Pam Downes]

They had at least one son, my great grandfather, John Arthur Bennett in 1857. This is where it gets interesting, as John Arthur was born in Ipstones, Cheddleton nr Leek.

Hi Lily,

Over to plan number 376 :D

Have you got the birth certificate of John junior? And how are you 110% certain that you have the correct John junior - as there are two John Arthurs born in June quarter 1857, as well as 30 other Johns (info from FreeBMD. Other 1857 quarters still to be transcribed.).
What is John senior's occupation on the birth cert? Ipstones looks an unlikely place to be the centre of Revenue activity although it does have a canal nearby.

Pam Downes

[Lily]

Yes I have the correct John Junior, as 1901 census indicates he was born in Leek, also it links up with his death in 1929 for which I have the original probate information (one of the family heirlooms). John senior's occupation was listed as Revenue Officer on JA birth certificate. Apparently so I am told Revenue Officers could either work in Customs (at a port) or Excise (in towns) where they would deal with purchase tax. My uncle a retired accountant does not seem surprised by the ground covered in light of the career choice.

[Pam Downes]

Hi Lily,

Plan number 377 now then.

It's worth asking the Staffordshire list if anyone has the 1861 census and if so would it be possible for them to please check in Ipstones for John junior with/without parents.
You could also ask the British Census forum for a look-up on the 1871 (and 1891 if you don't have it) country-wide. Look for John junior, born Ipstone/Cheddleton/Leek, aged 13/14/15, and hope that John senior is there too!
Alternatively you can take out a 7 day subscription to Ancestry.co.uk for just over 7 quid (including VAT) which includes viewing 20 images. Choice of 1871, 1881, 1891, and 1901 census, plus lots of other records.

Pam Downes

[Peggy]

Hi,

I had a try at this before, with less information, but I'm still not having any luck. Here's what comes up on a "best results" search for Bennett with birthplace Ipstones:

Edward Bennett 64 Ipstones, Staffordshire, England Head Ipstones Staffordshire
Samuel Bennett 55 Ipstones, Staffordshire, England Head Caverswall Staffordshire

More to come,

Peggy

[Peggy]

More here, but still no luck.

George Bennett 6 Cheddleton, Staffordshire, England Stepson Cheddleton Staffordshire
James Bennett 10 Cheddleton, Staffordshire, England Son Consall Staffordshire
Martha Ann Bennett 8 Cheddleton, Staffordshire, England Stepdaughter Cheddleton Staffordshire
Sarah Bennett 70 Cheddleton, Staffordshire, England Mother Consall Staffordshire Sussannah Bennett 8 Cheddleton, Staffordshire, England Daughter Consall Staffordshire
William Bennett 11 Cheddleton, Staffordshire, England Servant Consall Staffordshire
William Bennett 6 Cheddleton, Staffordshire, England Son Consall Staffordshire

Peggy

[Peggy]

Many more born in Leek showing on the 1871, but none who fit.

Btw, is the John A, 43, born Leek, living in South Manchester on the 1901 census yours?

Peggy

[Pam Downes]

Peggy,

You are a little star for your efforts. Thank you. Were they the results of searching countrywide for John, or just searching living in Ipstone/Cheddleton?
The Ipstone/Cheddleton request was for 1861, as John was born in Ipstone in 1857. But if John senior was still in the Revenue, he could have moved anywhere by 1871.
If you've got Ancestry, could you (if not already done)please try
John (Bennett), aged 13, born Leek
John, aged 14, born Leek
John, aged 15, born Leek
and then repeat the ages , born Ipstone
and then repeat the ages. born Cheddleton

Just wondering actually if the Bennett could have been mistranscribed (Barnett? Barrett? Bonnett?) and if something might show up if you entered just John, with no surname.

Pam Downes

[Peggy]

Hi Pam,

I haven't searched for them residing in any county or place. I haven't put a county of birth either, lest some transcriber decided Staffs was an island called "St Affs."
I've tried the general search, which brings up census, bmd, etc. The best should be listed first, but none looked good.
Next, there is a "search the UK census." All years, all places. I tried that with the 3 possible birthplaces. It should produce variants, but not if names are distorted beyond recognition.
On the 1871 search, I tried other consonants to begin the surname. And at one point, I looked for any John (surname blank) 13, 14, 15 born in Ipstones or Cheddleton.

I'm not sure that I believe that these people existed. :) Still wondering if the obvious John A on the 1901 is the right one. Lily should have found that one easily, so I have my doubts.

Peggy

[Pam Downes]

Hi Pam,
I'm not sure that I believe that these people existed. :) Still wondering if the obvious John A on the 1901 is the right one. Lily should have found that one easily, so I have my doubts.


Hi Peggy,

Lily has found John on the 1901 - see message number 13 in the thread. And I've found him on the 1881, with Harriett aged 2 and baby John aged 5 months, who's John aged 20 on the 1901. Found the rest of the family on the 1901 by using the databar(? - the thing above the bottom bar - I'm no good with all the technical terms:D) reference numbers.

Thank you for all your efforts to try and locate John junior, and by default John senior.

Sorry Lily, but apart from the 1851 Dover census, I am now out of ideas.

Pam Downes

[Lily]

Thanks to both of you Pam & Peggy. Im impressed with the generosity of your time. I will message in if I manage to find anything further out. The day job is getting in the way of my research at the moment!

Thanks again.

Lily