Virtue/Paskin/Richards family

[LizzieB]

Need to know this is MY family: Elizabeth Jane Virtue, b. 1862, Burton-upon-Trent, f. William (Beasley) Virtue (in most census Beasley not included), m. Sarah (Paskin). Eliz. J. married Eli Richards, Burton-upon-Trent 1887. Migrated to Aust. abt 1911/12. Most importantly are William (Beasley) Virtue (b. 1835) parents Joseph and Sarah, and are Eliz. J's siblings Richard Winter Virtue, Alice, Maria, Mary Emily, Hannah, William Bradley, Sarah Ann and John. Also there must be some significance to the second christian names of Beasley, Winter, and Bradley. A Richard Winter was a witness to William and Sarah's marriage.

[birdlip]

Hi there,

you're lucky the surnames are relatively unusual. Also I think its a godsend when you have surnames used as middle names. Richard Winter as a witness to Wm Beasley Virtue/Sarah Paskin's marriage in 1835 is interesting. Obviously someone they held in high esteem, because they named their first child after him, ( and I think you can safely say Richard Winter Virtue is definitely their child, they've given you a huge clue there) Have you seen this, on IGI;

Richard WINTER m Sarah PASKIN 09 Dec 1824 All Saints Alrewas, Stafford (Batch M035692)

Alrewas is abt 8 kms from Burton on Trent

[Sandyhall]

Hi
I have found them on all the census
1841 Joseph Virtue age 40, Sarah Virtue age 35,Jane Virtue age 15, Mary Virtue age 13, Elizabeth Virtue age 10, Joseph Virtue age 8, William Virtue age 6, Sarah Virtue age 4
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 975; Book: 1; Civil Parish: Alrewas; County: Staffordshire; Enumeration District: 12; Folio: 27; Page: 11; Line: 7
1851 William with his brother Joseph Farmers sons - Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2015; Folio: 10; Page: 12;
1861 William Beasley Virtue 26 Pubican, Sarah Virtue 27
Sarah Ann Virtue 1
William Bradley Virtue 3 weeks
Mary Ann Paskin 17 Wifes sister
Emma Perkins 18
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 1966; Folio: 117; Page: 36;
1871 Willm Virtue 36, Farm Lab. Sarah Virtue 37
Sarah Ann Virtue 11
Willm Virtue 9
Hannah Virtue 7
Mary Emily Virtue 2
Maria Virtue 6 months
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2892; Folio: 56; Page: 15;

Continued.....

[Sandyhall]

Continued....

1881William Virtue 46 Lab., Sarah Virtue 47
John Virtue 22
William Virtue 20
Mary E. Virtue 12
Maria Virtue 10
Alice Virtue 8
Richard Virtue 5
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2764; Folio: 86; Page: 1; Line:
1891William Virtue 56, Cowkeeper, Sarah Virtue 57
William Virtue 30
Emily Virtue 22
Alice Virtue 18
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2204; Folio 92; Page 14;
1901 William Virtue 66, Farmer own account, Sarah Virtue 67
William Virtue 40
Alice Virtue 28
Herbert Virtue 11 Grandson mothers name Alice
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2643; Folio: 169; Page: 13

Note no Eizabeth Jane b 1862

Continued.....
Sandy

[Sandyhall]

Continued......
There are however 2 Births on FreeBMD the following

Births Mar 1858
Virtue Elizabeth Jane Burton on T 6b 291
Deaths Mar 1858
Virtue Elizabeth Jane Burton on T. 6b 219

Births Dec 1862
VIRTUE Elizabeth Jane Burton 6b 277
Marriages Dec 1887
VIRTUE Elizabeth Jane Burton 6b 597
RICHARDS Eli Burton 6b 597
Simkin Maria Burton 6b 597

Sandy
I will look for the other one..

[birdlip]

Ah...OK... William Beasley Virtue was BORN in 1835, not married then, I misread your post. I notice the census returns for 1841 place Williams family in Alrewas where the Winters/ Paskin marriage took place in 1824.

[Sandyhall]

Hi again
Found her on the 1871 Census with her brother John, with their Grand Parents

John Paskin 63, Farmer of 52 Acres of land
Hannah Paskin 58 wife
Edward Paskin 30 son
Richard Paskin 31 son
James Paskin 23 son
Mary Ann Hatchett 25 daughter
Alfred James Hatchett 24 son in law
John Virtue 13 Gran son
Elizabeth Virtue 10 Grand daughter
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2917; Folio: 22; Page: 16

So to answer your question Yes these are your family.
Their are 13 christenings on the IGI for the children of John and Hannah C035692 also a marriage of John to Hannah Fisher 9 June 1831. All Saints, Alreward.
Sandy

[LizzieB]

Thanks so much birdlip x3 (from the colonies) and Sandyhall x 4 for your time/efforts. Have most of what you offered. It's easy to have doubts and do not want to link into wrong family. Not so easy researching from downunder. Would like to get to the bottom of the other 'Sarah Paskin/Richard Winter', also the middle names Beasley/Winter/Bradley. The 'proper' Sarah Paskin was 23 when wed William. Sandy, Eliz. Jane Virtue (my g.grandmother) in the 1881 census was a member of staff (kitchenmaid), Ash Furlong Hall Classical School, Sutton Coldfield, Warwick, age 18. Also Sandy this Eliz. Jane was likely to be named in honour of her deceased sister b. 1858, which I believe was quite common. 1851 census Elizabeth Virtue, b. 1831, Gayton, Sts. 'Amboscwiez Virtue', care to attempt decipher? The parentage of Hannah Paskin is a doozy of a story. No room to go into it now. LizzieB

[Sandyhall]

Thanks so much birdlip x3 (from the colonies) and Sandyhall x 4 for your time/efforts. Have most of what you offered. It's easy to have doubts and do not want to link into wrong family. Not so easy researching from downunder. Would like to get to the bottom of the other 'Sarah Paskin/Richard Winter', also the middle names Beasley/Winter/Bradley. The 'proper' Sarah Paskin was 23 when wed William. Sandy, Eliz. Jane Virtue (my g.grandmother) in the 1881 census was a member of staff (kitchenmaid), Ash Furlong Hall Classical School, Sutton Coldfield, Warwick, age 18. Also Sandy this Eliz. Jane was likely to be named in honour of her deceased sister b. 1858, which I believe was quite common. 1851 census Elizabeth Virtue, b. 1831, Gayton, Sts. 'Amboscwiez Virtue', care to attempt decipher? The parentage of Hannah Paskin is a doozy of a story. No room to go into it now. LizzieB

Hi I've got a lot for you as I carried on looking

From a search of FreeBMD of the name VIRTUE of all records of Staffordshire brings a lot of Births, Marriages and Deaths.

'Amboscwiez Virtue'
Births Sep 1847, Virtue, Ambrosine, Lichfield Vol17,Page77 this is 'Amboscwiez Virtue' here is also her marriage to Thomas F Beck.
Marriages Dec 1876
BECK Thomas Featherstone Burton 6b 538
LANGLEY Thomas Burton 6b 538
Virtue Ambrosine Burton 6b 538
WINDRIDGE Sarah Burton 6b 538
I have found them on the 1881 Census and 2 children Walter C, Thomas F
Class: RG11; Piece: 2762; Folio: 99; Page: 33; Line:

Sarah Winter nee' Paskin and John Paskin
Sarah Paskin b abt 1801 Barton Under Needwood, Staffordshire (married to Richard Winter b abt 1799 have them on the 1841 Census. Class: HO107; Piece 975; Book: 2; Civil Parish: Alrewas; County: Staffordshire; Enumeration District: 13; Folio: 7; Page: 10; Line: 6; and 1861 Class: RG9; Piece: 1976; Folio: 13; Page: 4; )
John Paskin b abt 1808 Barton Under Neewood, Staffordshire (Married to Hannah b abt 1813 Alrewas, Staffordshire - Sarah Paskin's born 1834 married to William Beasley Virtue Mother and Father)
I'd say that Sarah & John where brother and sister.

Sandy

Continued.......

[Sandyhall]

Continued.....

The 1851 Census has Hannah Paskin nee' Fisher with her mother
Elizabeth Stater 72 Widow, Huxters Shop (Occupation)
Hannah Paskin 42 Married to Lab.
Richd Paskin 12
Edwin Paskin 11
William Paskin 8
James Paskin 5
Alfred Paskin 2 Mo
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2015; Folio: 33; Page: 11;

1871 she's with her Husband and Children.
Class: RG10; Piece: 2917; Folio: 22; Page: 15;

Although I can't find them at the Moment on any others.

Ambrosine is with her sister Elizabeth on the 1861 Census
James Handsaker 29
Elizabeth Handsaker 30
Elizabeth Jane 5 (Elizabeth Jane Handsaker)
Sarah Virtue Jane 4 (Sarah Virtue Handsaker)
Ambrosine Virtue 12 wife's sister
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 3498; Folio: 108; Page: 36;
I can't find a Marriage for James and Elizabeth or the births for the Children, names are a mistake on the transcription.
Elizabeth then turns up on the 1881 and 1891 Census with her brother Joseph Virtue she is the wife of William Paskin
1881 - Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2764; Folio: 74; Page: 10;
1891 - Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2204; Folio 31; Page 3;

Sandy
I'm curious now about Hannah's parentage you can PM me if you want.

[LizzieB]

You are a busy beaver Sandy, I have the rest of the Paskin kids with their father John elsewhere, fill you in later. This is getting very confusing. I have, from another researcher's records, William Paskin (one of Hannah and John's kids) marrying Elizabeth Virtue in 1867, so James Handsaker must have died, haven't looked that up on BMD's yet. Time, time, time. Four children, Elizabeth Paskin 1868, William Edward 1869, Mary 1874, Charles, 1878. Give me time to go thru your latest offerings and at the risk of sounding thick, re Hannah's parentage, what do you mean by I can 'PM' you? LizzieB. Will try to arrange the paperwork for next time.

[Sandyhall]

You are a busy beaver Sandy, I have the rest of the Paskin kids with their father John elsewhere, fill you in later. This is getting very confusing. I have, from another researcher's records, William Paskin (one of Hannah and John's kids) marrying Elizabeth Virtue in 1867, so James Handsaker must have died, haven't looked that up on BMD's yet. Time, time, time. Four children, Elizabeth Paskin 1868, William Edward 1869, Mary 1874, Charles, 1878. Give me time to go thru your latest offerings and at the risk of sounding thick, re Hannah's parentage, what do you mean by I can 'PM' you? LizzieB. Will try to arrange the paperwork for next time.

Hi
You can send me a Private Message or E-mail me by Clicking on my name, a drop down box appears, click on the option you want, send your message.


James Howard Handsaker
James Howard Handsaker b 2 June 1833, Burton UK. Died 27 May 1921, Manilla New South Wales, Australia.
Father Thomas Handsaker.
Mother Sarah Aldritt.

Married Elizabeth Virtue. Children with Elizabeth
Elizabeth Jane 8 Dec 1855 Derby.
Sarah Virtue 16 April 1857 Burton on Trent.
Maria 1861 Burton on Trent. Died 1944 Victoria, British Columbia, Canada.
Thomas James 18 April 1862 Buton on Trent.

Married Jane Wood. Born 1840 Auckland NZ, died 16 Oct 1918 Manilla NSW. Married 10 May 1869 Roma, Queensland. Children with Jane.
Male 1868 Mitchell Downs Maranoa, Queensland.
Elizabeth Laura Howard 1870 Mitchell Downs.
Mary Jane 2 May 1873 Junction Creek, NSW
Arthur G 1875 Cucan Creek, Scone, NSW
Isabella Edith 1 Sep 1877 Junction Creek, NSW
Bertie James 29 Dec 1881 Manilla, NSW
Betsy Jane 2 Sept 1882 Tamworth, NSW
Thomas 30 June 1884 Manilla, NSW

I found this information on Ancestry,One World Tree, There are 2 submitted trees making up the tree but alas there are no Records saved so be cautious with the information.



Sandy

[LizzieB]

Hi Sandy and birdlip,

Trying to get a lot of writing (or typing up) done today before I totally lose track as well as dealing with numerous interruptions. Hope tomorrow to be able to fill in about the Hannah Paskin situation, although with a bit of luck I will be able to get to LDS centre for a couple of hours to peruse some films. Kind regards. LizzieB

[Sandyhall]

Hi
Have you got this 1841 Census

Henry Slater 65
Elizabeth Slater 60
John Parkin 30
Hannah Parkin 30
Thomas Parkin 8
Sarah Parkin 7
Samuel Parkin 6
John Parkin 4
Robert Parkin 1
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 975; Book: 1; Civil Parish: Alrewas; County: Staffordshire; Enumeration District: 12; Folio: 32; Page: 21; Line:
15;
I think this is transcribed wrong should be Paskin I can't read the original as its to faded.

Hannah Fisher Christening 8 Oct 1809 All Saints, Alrewas, Staffordshire Mother Eizabeth Fisher.

Elizabeth Fisher Christening 21 May 1780, All Saints, Alrewas, Staffordshire Mother Eizabeth Father Thomas Fisher. IGI - C035693

Elizabeth Fisher Married Henry Slater 16 Feb 1816 All Saints, Alrewas, Staffordshire. IGI - M035692

The other tree with Hannah Fisher's father as James and mother Ann is wrong information, Yes they have a daughter Hannah Fisher but she was christened 9 April 1804. IGI - C035693.

Sandy

[LizzieB]

Gooday Sandy, You've made my day by anticipating what I was getting at. I have locked horns with the owner of this tree several times. Obviously can't get their head around Elizabeth Fisher (Slater) being a single mum. Whether it was Henry's child or she bought the child into the marriage, who knows. Also the fact that 2 of Hannah and John's children are Henry and Elizabeth (after the Slater's) is further proof. 1861 census shows Elizabeth Slater running a grocery business with Richard Paskin (grandson) in her h'hold, liberal with her age, more so with Richard's, but it is definitely 'the' ones. Four of Hannah/John's children died as infants. Have copy of Elizabeth and Henry's marriage cert. Suppose there's nothing I can do about this tree being inaccurate. What an effort you've gone to without me getting back to you with the full story. And in that 1871 census you have for Paskins, Elizabeth Virtue , 10, is my g.grandmother (Elizabeth Jane) and brother John, 13. There's a lesson for everybody here Sandy, isn't there, that sometimes you have to go with your gut feeling and dig, dig, dig and not just accept that all of the family trees posted are accurate. Rather than email you I thought this answer would be far better posted for anyone interested to read. Now I'm confident enough to write this part of the family up in draft form. Thanks again Sandy.

[birdlip]

Well done you two!!

[Sandyhall]

Hi
I have been looking on the IGI to see if Elizabeth Fisher and Henry Slater had anymore children but I haven't found any. I have found a couple of Christening for Henry Slater
HENRY SLATER - Christening: 05 JUL 1772 All Saints, Alrewas, Stafford, England
Parents: THOMAS and MARY SLATER
HENRY SLATOR - Christening: 11 JUL 1777 All Saints, Alrewas, Stafford, England
Parents: THOS. and ELIZ SLATOR
This second one is a possible one.

I have saved all the information I have found onto a tree on Ancestry for you, if you have access to that site you should be able to see it if not send me your e-mail and I will invite you to have a look.

I have had a look at this other tree in my "opinion" its not a very good one. They have no records saved that I can see for anyone in the tree, all they have is 2000 odd names dates of Birth, Marriages and Deaths there are no Census Records saved. So I' be very cautious about it, check every thing out before using any of it.

Sandy

[LizzieB]

Birdlip.......thank you!
Sandy, I haven't found any other children either and I've looked at the Parish register printouts but will go back for another look as I have the film for another month. The funny thing about this 'other' tree is that it's only thru a 2nd marriage of a Paskin to his g.g.grandmother in 1880 that he involved himself in developing this tree. When I asked him (among other questions) "Your confidence in James F and Ann being Hannah's F's parents?" Answer: "I can't confirm this information." There you go! Believe me I tread very carefully with any information I find, thank you. P.S. Witness to Henry and Eliz's marriage: Isaac Fisher, James Slater. Baptism: Hannah Fisher 22/12/1817 Isaac, Ann. Burial: Hannah Fisher 14/4/1818 Infant(probably the above) Birth: Isaac 25/5/1819 Isaac, Ann. Witness to John Paskin and Hannah's marriage 1831: Mary Fisher/ Wm Kent. I'm going fishing for Mary later but for now, to look at the tree. This is so good of you and I will get back to you a.s.a.p. Regards, LizzieB (Broadway)

[Sandyhall]

Hi
You should be able to see the tree on Ancestry now I've sent you an invite but I made it public so you should have been able to see it. I have allowed you to be Editor so you can add information to it change it if you want.

You will see that I have already found the Isaac Fisher you mentioned, Brother to Elizabeth and the other Siblings and her Parents. All that I've found out can be checked on FreeBMD, IGI and Ancestry.

The birth Cert. for Ambrosine Virtue information I gave you earlier will give you Sarah the Mother's maiden name. I have found a marriage for Joseph and a Sarah Ward which I have put on the tree for you but I am not 100% sure about it.

Sandy

[LizzieB]

Hi Sandy, I did have the Joseph/Sarah Ward but decided to put it on the 'to do' list. I was looking for the tree under Hannah/John Paskin and if you haven't realised by now I am a new chum, only been doing this for 12 months. What it your connection to this tree Sandy? Did a couple of hours on it today but caught off-guard and had to use a lot of 'years' only, not day/month/year. Bit embarrassing when I couldn't even put my hands on my uncles bmd's. Edit later. Hope there's no typos but will pick them up. Out of all the kids of J & S Virtue can only find Sarah b. 1837 in the C of E, Alrewas, Staffs. parish records film, i.e. c. 22/1/1837. I have ordered the PR's for Breedon-on-the Hill and the Whitwick Chapel for the continuing search for Thomas and his siblings. In the 1851census Thomas is a lodger with the Smith family North St., Whitwick and an Eliza Smith was a witness to Thomas' marriage to Frances (may have already told you this.) Where born: Worthington, CP: Whitwick. Suppose Thomas/Samuel being born 1 yr apart could have been christened together 29 JUN 1837 aged 9/10. Add to 'to do' list. Need an early night. Thanks loads and bye for now.. Liz