From USA to Wales.

[lindarhead]

Hello all, I have a bit of a mystery and I'm hoping someone can help me solve it!..:)

My great great grandfather, one Robert Thomas of Whitford,Flintshire,Wales married a Mary Brown in 1852. Now on all the census records from 1841 through to 1901 she is listed with her place of birth recorded as America. On one it says, United States, on another it says N Shintes, United States, but on the rest it simply says America, which is not that helpful. I did a search for N Shintes but came up with nothing so I'm stuck. I did find an American birth for a Mary Brown in Massachusetts about the right year ( 1829) but have no clue if this is her. She appears to have been in Wales at a very young age, she was only 10 on the 1841 census, and no sign of any parents. She appears to be living with a Williams family, they have two children of Mary's age,plus other younger ones, so I've discounted my thought that Mary was the daughter of the wife from a former marriage or relationship, however what may or may not be a clue as to why she lived with this family is that in the column for Occupation where for a child of this age it would possibly say scholar, there are two initials. I think they are F.S.They could possibly be T.S, but I think it's the former.
So, if anyone can help me to solve this mystery I'd be so grateful, what I can't understand is how she came to be in Wales and at such a young age...and also why.I can't find any ships lists from America to the UK at all for that early in the 1800s, she must have arrived between 1830-40, but why was she there in Wales, it's a long way from America

Any help with this one would be appreciated.

Cheers, Linda...:)

[Procat]

Hi Linda,

On her marriage certificate does she state the name and occupation of her father?

I would be tempted to try and find him in the USA in 1830 - though why did she have to be named Brown.:)

[lindarhead]

Hi Linda,

On her marriage certificate does she state the name and occupation of her father?

I would be tempted to try and find him in the USA in 1830 - though why did she have to be named Brown.:)
I only discovered her last night so haven't had chance to order her marriage cert yet,but it's on my list of 'things to do today!'

Thanks for the amazingly quick response,Procat..:)

Linda

[lindarhead]

Hi Linda.

Some years ago I researched a number of Flintshire families who had emigrated to America in the mid/late 19th c.
They all ended up in West Virginia, where they had worked in the coal mining industry. Might be worth a look.

Finbar.
Hi,Finbar thanks for that, I'll check out West Virginia just in case.Although my ancestor was born in America and then came to Wales....unless the family were from Wales, went to the States and then came back!! But she doesn't appear to be living with her parents even back when she was 10,however I've sent for her marriage certificate today so that should give me a clue about her father,

Linda

[Leander]

Hello,

If you find some more information on Mary Brown (such as her date of birth, parents' names), please come back and let us know. We might be able to get some more information for you.

I was looking at Massachusetts vital records and there were no fewer than 75 Mary Browns born between 1827 and 1834 (a reasonable range assuming she was in her late teens to mid twenties when she married).

Best of luck!

Deb

[lindarhead]

Hello,

If you find some more information on Mary Brown (such as her date of birth, parents' names), please come back and let us know. We might be able to get some more information for you.

I was looking at Massachusetts vital records and there were no fewer than 75 Mary Browns born between 1827 and 1834 (a reasonable range assuming she was in her late teens to mid twenties when she married).

Best of luck!

Deb
Hello Deb, hopefully I will have her father's name soon as I ordered her marriage certificate which should tell me that. I've actually been wondering if it was Theophilus Brown as one of her sons was name Theophilus and it's not what you'd call a common Welsh name,so maybe she'd named him after her father? Just a thought. I'll know more when the cert arrives. She married in 1852 and I think was about 23. Thanks for offering to check for me,I really appreciate it. Incidentally does this entry under place of birth mean anything to you...N Shintes,U.States?

Linda

[racing girl]

Linda, which census said "N Shintes"? It might read differently to another set of eyes!

Brenda

[lindarhead]

Linda, which census said "N Shintes"? It might read differently to another set of eyes!

Brenda
Hi,Brenda,link below... if that doesn't work it's the 1871 Wales census, for Robert and Mary Thomas,Whitford parish,county Flintshire.

Thank you...Linda


http://
content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7618&iid=FLNRG10_5637_5640-0157&fn=Mary&ln=Thomas&st=r&ssrc=&pid=27177800

[lindarhead]

Hi,Brenda,link below... if that doesn't work it's the 1871 Wales census, for Robert and Mary Thomas,Whitford parish,county Flintshire.

Thank you...Linda


http://
content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7618&iid=FLNRG10_5637_5640-0157&fn=Mary&ln=Thomas&st=r&ssrc=&pid=27177800
PS: I had the N.Shintes from the transcription not the original...but looking at the original again it could just say U.States??..what do you think?

Linda...:)

[lindarhead]

Hello,

If you find some more information on Mary Brown (such as her date of birth, parents' names), please come back and let us know. We might be able to get some more information for you.

I was looking at Massachusetts vital records and there were no fewer than 75 Mary Browns born between 1827 and 1834 (a reasonable range assuming she was in her late teens to mid twenties when she married).

Best of luck!

Deb
Well...such disappointment!..Mary's marriage cert arrived this morning, but the space where her father's name should be is blank, so I'm no wiser now about why,how and when she travelled from the USA to Wales. She was born 1828 and first appears in Wales on the UK 1841 census , listed as FS( Female Servant??), so obviously that narrows down the when, but doesn't help with the how or why...:)

I'm stumped!!!...:)

Linda

[lindarhead]

Morning All...I'm back with this one after 15 months!!

I left it on the back burner as I couldn't solve the mystery but just lately have been doing some research for an American friend which made me think again about my great great grandmother and her 'American' birth. I have found a possible overseas birth record for my Mary Brown, who was born in or around 1827. She was married age 24 in 1852 so therefore born 1827/8. On all census records in Wales from 1841 through to 1911 she is recorded as being born in America, it is only on the 1911 that it states born in America 'British by Parent' . On the 1841 census of Whitford, Flintshire, she is not living with parents she is living and working as a servant for a family named Williams, and yet is recorded as being 10[which I know on this census would have been rounded down from her actual age of 13/14]. My dilemna is, that the overseas birth record I found gives Canada as place of birth, whereas she always states America. She doesn't appear to be literate, when she marries in 1852 she cannot write but makes her mark, I'm wondering if as a child that America and Canada would seem like the same place to her if you see what I mean. The birth is an Army birth so likely her father, whoever he is, he is not named on her marriage cert, was serving over there.
I have made a note of the details of the birth record, but before I try to order it [would 1827 overseas records be available for ordering?] I wondered if there was any advice or help anyone could give with regard to British military involvement and movement in Canada/America in the early 19th Century?

Cheers,

Linda..:)

[bibliojunkie]

Welcome back Linda. Your lass could have been born in what is now Canada but, at the time of her birth, was known as British North America. Canada came into being when, from memory, Upper and Lower Canada* (now Ontario and Quebec), Nova Scotia and New Brunswick were united under the British North America Act in 1867. Seeing 'America' as a place of birth on early census returns often causes confusion. :)

Ali

*also known as Canada West and Canada East

[lindarhead]

Ali, you're an absolute star!!!..:) Thank you so much for replying so quickly and with such positive news.

Wonderful, thank you so much. I do wish I'd listened more in geography and history lessons all those years ago..:)

Linda

[bibliojunkie]

You're welcome. Is Canadian history taught in UK schools? I remember learning about the wheat, timber and the Canadian Shield and that was that. Then I moved to Canada ….

Ali

[lindarhead]

Actually now you come to mention it, probably not...but then I have to confess I was so bored by the teacher that I didn't concentrate on what he was telling us!..:)

All I remember is having to learn loads of Kings,Queens and dates, and something about the South Sea Bubble. I've learnt more about history and geography since I became interested in genealogy.

Linda