Boer War - Thomas RALPH

[sorrellk]

I'm posting this out of desperation as much as anything else and wondering if someone can give me some advice.

My grandfather was Thomas Ralph, b. abt. 1881. the first verified event I have for him is his 1st marriage on 9 Aug 1899, the 2nd is the 1901 census taken 31 Mar 1901. No children were born to him and his wife until July 1903.

In my endless search for a birth for this elusive grandfather and after hearing from my elderly uncle that he had served in South Africa, I finally hired a researcher in the UK to look for his Boer War records (I live in Canada). It took 2 different researchers over 8 months and much pressuring on my part, and this is finally what I got:

South Africa medal roll entry for Pvt. Thomas RALPH, regimental number 2832, 4th Batt. The Kings Liverpool Regiment. This was signed by Lieut. Colonel W.H. Hand at Polfontein 30th May 1902.

Also the entry for the same individual indicating entitlement to the Queen's South Africa Medal and Clasps for Cape Colony, Transvaal and South Africa 1902. This was signed by the same Lieut. Colonel Hand and dated at Warrington, October 19, 1902.

I was told that the subsequent search for his service papers found nothing. This is exactly what the report says:

Thomas Ralph, Liverpool Regt

I searched for this soldier's service records but none were found National Archives references WO97/5739 & 6354 (Regular Army 1900 to 1913 discharge) and WO96/194 (Militia Service records Liverpool Regt 1880 to 1908.) I am afraid from the available information I cannot identify him First World War.

Jonathan Collins

As I had not asked for WW1 records to be located (I've already been down that road unsuccessfully), I'm not sure what that last sentence means. I have yet to receive an answer to my e-mailed request for clarification.

My questions for right now are these:
Why would it be that his service papers could not be found? I realize many WW1 records were lost in the bombings of WW2, but is this also the case for Boer War service papers?
Can someone tell me if there are any other National Archive records should have been searched?

I cannot shake this feeling of having been shortchanged somehow in exchange for my 25 pounds. If someone can reassure me that it sounds as though everything that could be done was done, then maybe I'll have some peace of mind.

Thanks, and sorry for length of this post.

Karen Sorrell

[Geoffers]

My grandfather was Thomas Ralph, b. abt. 1881....I finally hired a researcher in the UK to look for his Boer War records
South Africa medal roll entry for Pvt. Thomas RALPH, regimental number 2832, 4th Batt. The Kings Liverpool Regiment. This was signed by Lieut. Colonel W.H. Hand at Polfontein 30th May 1902.
The following is supposition based on what you have written:

Service records for those discharged prior to WW1 have survived and exist at TNA in Kew. If he had served and been discharged up to 1913, then his service record 'should' be at TNA.

If a service record could not be found, then as he was bn c.1881 he would have been young enough to serve in WW1. If this is the case then his service could either have been continuous (i.e. from the Boer War), or he may have left the army and rejoined - in which case his earlier service record may have been filed with the WW1 record. In these circumstances the service record(s) may be amongst the burnt records. It is because of this that I think the researcher has looked at WW1 records for you.

Do you know if the researcher checked either the long-service pension records (1823-1920) in WO116 or the disability pension records (1715-1913) in WO118? - or did you pay a set fee for a cerrtain amount of work which did not include this?

Do you have anything else to go on with regards to your grandfather - did he survive WW1? Did he have any brothers with whom he may have served in Ww1? Have you tried searching the online medal roll for WW1?

Geoffers

[sorrellk]

Thanks for this input. Like I said, I'm appreciative of any advice.

WO116 and WO118 were not searched according to the report I received. My grandfather did serve in WW1 and survived. I have no idea of his having any siblings who also served, as I have been unable to locate him or his family prior to 1899.
Last year, I paid a different researcher to search for WW1 records and no service papers could be found, although I do have a copy of his WW1 medal card. I asked this current researcher only to search for Boer War records as the WW1 search had been unsuccessful. This is a copy of the e-mail I sent to him after I received the report and his reply. Not much has been clarified, as you can see.

Hi Jonathan,

Just wanted to let you know that I received your report today. Thank you
for your time.

Could you just answer me a quick question? Why would it be that my
grandfather's name appears in the QSA Medal Rolls but his service papers
could not be found? I have heard in the past that Boer War service
records were stored with WW1 records and thus were largely destroyed during the WW2 bombings. Is this the case here?

Thanks again.

Karen

We looked up to 1913 discharge, not 1WW, if you want us to do this we
will ASAP, Jonathan

Do you think it would be worthwhile to pay to have WO116 and WO118 searched?

[Geoffers]

WO116 and WO118 were not searched according to the report I received. My grandfather did serve in WW1 and survived. I have no idea of his having any siblings who also served, as I have been unable to locate him or his family prior to 1899.
To find him prior to 1901, the sort of docs that you will need are the birth certificate of one of his children - this will give you the mother's maiden name. With that you can search for the parents marriage certificate which will give you the names of the fathers' and their occupations. With that detail and teh 1901 census, you should then be able to make more accurate searches of the 1891 and 1881 census returns.


Last year, I paid a different researcher to search for WW1 records and no service papers could be found, although I do have a copy of his WW1 medal card.
If he served in the South African (Boer) war and continued serving in the army up to and including WW1, then it is probable that his service record has been destroyed. If he just served in the Boer War and then rejoined for WW1, it is possible that the two service records were kept together and also destroyed.


Do you think it would be worthwhile to pay to have WO116 and WO118 searched?
This is a big question - if you think he may have received a pension and if you are desperate for the information and if you can afford it, then you may consider it worthwhile. If the answer to any of these is 'no' then it probably isn't worthwhile.

[sorrellk]

Thanks very much for all your help. Despite 5 years of looking, I have been unable to trace a marriage for my Thomas Ralph's parents (I only know his father's name) or a birth for the man himself. This is why I have been looking for service records, in the hope that it would give me even a date of birth to work with.
I think I will end up having WO116 and WO118 searched as I've pretty much exhausted all other options.
Thanks again for the advice.

[Geoffers]

Thanks very much for all your help. Despite 5 years of looking, I have been unable to trace a marriage for my Thomas Ralph's parents (I only know his father's name) or a birth for the man himself.
Could his dad have also been in the army? If this is the case, you might also try searching the minor indices usually kept with the main GRO index.

In particular you should at least check:

Indexes to Regimental Registers of Births 1761-1924

Index to Army Returns of Births; and Marriages; and Deaths 1881-1955

Geoffers