bigamist

[rburland]

My real Grandfather was a bigamist when he married Grandma in 1939 in Birmingham. His given name was Clifton Peter Scott-Riddle (not real) and his address was 43 Tenison Street, Lambeth. Would he have been charged in Birmingham or in London and what name would he have been charged under. Obviously I don't know his real name. Grandma is no longer with us and my father who was born later in 1939 is also no longer alive. He never knew who his real father was. please if anyone can offer any advice, I would be really grateful.
Thanks

[Sue Mackay]

I have looked at the Times Digital Archive for 1939 and there were 17 articles about bigamists!! You might like to look through and see if you recognise your grandmother's name. As you live in Somerset, you can probably get free access to the Times Digital Archive by using your library card number. See information here (http://www.somerset.gov.uk/somerset/culturecommunity/culturalservice/libraries/information/free_reference_online/).

[rburland]

Thanks Sue, I have done as you suggested but no luck I'm afraid. Grandma was Ivy Lee of Beaumont Road, Birmingham. I have the actual marriage cert which gives his name Clifton Peter Scott-Riddle, an aero-engineer and his father's profession as an MP - George Padman Scott-Riddle. All of this is false I'm sure. Kew say they might hold the relevant records but it's getting there. Many thanks for your help so far. I was able to access the Times Online via my library card so that's really useful in itself.

[Geoffers]

Welcome to the B-G forums


My real Grandfather was a bigamist when he married Grandma in 1939 in Birmingham. His given name was Clifton Peter Scott-Riddle (not real) and his address was 43 Tenison Street, Lambeth.

Can you access any Post Office Directories for this period to see who was living there?

When you mention that he was a bigamist when he married your grandmother - do you mean that he had already committed the offence then - or he became a bigamist when he married your grandmother?

A couple of questions, which bearing in mind the sensitivity of the case, you may not wish to discuss on open forum, but..............

Whilst people do tell lies when they marry (and this chap obviously had a head start on most), how old did he say he was?

Do you know if he was English, or Scottish, Welsh, Irish, or.............?


Do you have any idea of the name of his previous wife/wives?

Do you know roughly how long after the marriage to your grandmother, that he was found out and prosecuted?

I carried out a search on TNA's catalogue for Bigamy trials in the period 1939-1942 and found the following:

MEPO files (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?SearchInit=0&txtsearchterm=bigamy&txtfirstdate=1939&txtlastdate=1942&txtrestriction=mepo&hdnsorttype=Reference&image1.x=28&image1.y=10)- records of the Metropolitan Police

CRIM files (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?SearchInit=0&txtsearchterm=bigamy&txtfirstdate=1939&txtlastdate=1942&txtrestriction=crim&hdnsorttype=Reference&image1.x=42&image1.y=5)- records of the Central Criminal Court

Click on the links - do you know any information which rings a bell with any of the cases mentioned?


Would he have been charged in Birmingham or in London and what name would he have been charged under.

It depends on circumstances - but he should have been prosecuted in the area where he committed the offence - if he had been legally married once in Birmingham and then bigamously married in London - AND there were no other offences to be considered - he would have been tried in London. He would have been charged under his birth name, but the indictment would have mentioned the alias he used.

[v.wells]

My question is stupid really but how do you know that he was a bigamist?

[rburland]

Thanks everyone for your help so far. Here's some more info. This man became a bigamist on marrying Grandma. His age was 30 (born 1909). I have the names of the people living at 43 Tenison Street in 1938 and 1939 from the relevant electoral rolls. They were J.F and M.H Marstin, Alvin Moore, Malcolm Shaw and Stanley Roy Webb (1938). Then the Marstins, Fred Hains, Alvin Moore in 1939.After their marriage on 18th March 1939 he said he needed to return to London for business and didn't return to Birmingham so my Grandma went to London to find he had disappeared owing rent which she paid. In the summer of that year 2 detectives visited her in Birmingham and told her he had already been married when their marriage took place. After that I know no more. This info was related to my Mum just after she married my Dad in 1959 and she was told to tell no-one else including my Dad!. Please do keep asking questions as I am determined to find this man or at least his family.
Many thanks so far,
Rachel

[Lesley Robertson]

Thanks everyone for your help so far. Here's some more info. This man became a bigamist on marrying Grandma. His age was 30 (born 1909). I have the names of the people living at 43 Tenison Street in 1938 and 1939 from the relevant electoral rolls. They were J.F and M.H Marstin, Alvin Moore, Malcolm Shaw and Stanley Roy Webb (1938). Then the Marstins, Fred Hains, Alvin Moore in 1939.After their marriage on 18th March 1939 he said he needed to return to London for business and didn't return to Birmingham so my Grandma went to London to find he had disappeared owing rent which she paid. In the summer of that year 2 detectives visited her in Birmingham and told her he had already been married when their marriage took place. After that I know no more. This info was related to my Mum just after she married my Dad in 1959 and she was told to tell no-one else including my Dad!. Please do keep asking questions as I am determined to find this man or at least his family.
Many thanks so far,
Rachel

Do you know when in the year the electoral roles were put together? It seems to be that you need the Tenison St occupants from before and after his runner.... The police visited your Gran in the summer, and I suppose they would have seen her reasonably soon after he'd been detected/arrested, so the timing of the information collection for the roll (not its publication) could be very interesting.
You could look for marriages for Shaw & Webb, for example. Of course, he had probably married well before, and his wife was not living with him at that address, so assume a marriage from his age 16 to 1938.....

Lesley

[Peter Goodey]

This is a question not an answer :(

The bigamous marriage would be voidable. As I understand it, a decree of nullity would be required and a statement that was such a decree can be obtained from the Principal Registry of the Family Division.

The question is - does anybody know whether it would be feasible to start investigating this case via such a decree?

[Joanna Bastyan]

I have read this thread with interest as my Grandfather was also a bigamist.
My Grandmother & he were married in London in 1937. As soon as Gran announced she was pregnant (with my Mum)he b******d off to his wife & family in Ireland. He was Irish as was my Gran.
Now - I only know this as Mum has told me. And the question How do you know? makes me wonder.
If my Gran hadn't pressed charges would he have been found out (I believe Gran would have died of shame letting anyone know this).
I know his name, don't know if it's real but not much more.

I will definately be keeping an eye on this thread as I'd love the old so-and-so to get his come uppance although I doubt he's still alive.

[Lesley Robertson]

This is a question not an answer :(

The bigamous marriage would be voidable. As I understand it, a decree of nullity would be required and a statement that was such a decree can be obtained from the Principal Registry of the Family Division.

The question is - does anybody know whether it would be feasible to start investigating this case via such a decree?


Is there an english version of the scottish Register of Corrected Entries? I've seen entries in the scottish one registering that a marriage had ended in divorce - I've never seen one that ended in bigamy in there, but then I've never looked.
Lesley

[rburland]

Hi everyone, this is the most help I've had ever with finding my bigamist. I did apply for a search to the Family Division for them to search for either a divorce or nullity cert but the result was negative and they searched twice. My Grandma subsequently married again in 1942 and My Dad was adopted by this man. If there was no record of nullity etc does this mean her subsequent marriage was not valid??? If anyone wants any further info please ask.
Many thanks so far,
Rachel

[Geoffers]

If there was no record of nullity etc does this mean her subsequent marriage was not valid??? If anyone wants any further info please ask.

No, it was the first ceremony (that she went through) that was not legal. As it was not legal, it was in effect as though it had not taken place. So that when she did legally marry in 1942, it was her first marriage.

You have a couple of options, neither of which is easy. First a search of newspapers from approximatley the time she first found about about the offence until her own marriage - bearing in mind that this was in wartime, the coverage may not be that extensive.

Second will involve going to TNA at Kew for a long search through the files there. In your shoes, I would first start with the indexed offences for which I previously provided links. As they are indexed, they will be easy to locate and there are not that many of them - 12 cases and some of them relate to women defendents.

[Marie C..]

Have you got the marriage cert of the second marriage.(first really as the previous one was bigamous)?What does it give as bride's status.(married and divorced or marriage annulled or just spinster?
How do you know his proper name and that the person at the address in Birmingham was actually him. In order to marry in church would he not have needed a copy of his baptismal certificate?
If he married in a registry office then might it be worth writing to the registrar of the place the bigamous wedding took place and ask what was on the register.
Were there any children born to the couple in Birmingham? M

[Maximilian]

The bigamous marriage would be voidable. As I understand it, a decree of nullity would be required and a statement that was such a decree can be obtained from the Principal Registry of the Family Division.

The question is - does anybody know whether it would be feasible to start investigating this case via such a decree?

Sorry, Peter Goodey, but this is wrong. A bigamous "marriage", that is to say, a ceremony in which at that time one of the parties is already legally married to a living third party, is void ab initio i.e. from the moment it takes place, without any requirement for any decree by anybody.

One effect of this is that the party who was not previously married is free at any time to go through a marriage ceremony with another person without needing any decree of nullity or divorce.

[Geoffers]

Have you got the marriage cert of the second marriage.(first really as the previous one was bigamous)?What does it give as bride's status.(married and divorced or marriage annulled or just spinster?

For the legal marriage in 1942 - the marital status should be spinster as she would not need a divorce and the first ceremony was not legal so there would be no marriage to annul.


How do you know his proper name

I think that's a large part of the problem.


In order to marry in church would he not have needed a copy of his baptismal certificate?

No.

[rburland]

Hi everyone, this is probably a silly question. How would the police have been alerted to the fact that this man was already married especially if he used a false name?

[Elwyn Soutter]

Usually because someone tipped the police off. The most obvious person would be the first wife who would be pretty miffed to discover her husband had a second wife in another part fo the country and would think "I'll show him", and report it to get even.

Elwyn

[Lesley Robertson]

Usually because someone tipped the police off. The most obvious person would be the first wife who would be pretty miffed to discover her husband had a second wife in another part fo the country and would think "I'll show him", and report it to get even.

Elwyn

On a couple of reports I've seen, it said that the Registrar reported it - presumably the first marriage only came to his notice late.
Lesley

[Elwyn Soutter]

Yes I agree the Registrar may have reported it, but only because someone brought it to the Registrar's attention. Usually an enraged 1st spouse. It highlights the difference between the UK system of recording data and countries which follow the Code Napolenique (ie many European countries).

In countries like France and Holland your birth is recorded in your local town hall. Whenever an event takes place, such as marriage, divorce etc, there is a reference back to the local jurisdiction. A record is then made of each transaction, even if the event itself was on the other side of the country. It's not foolproof but theere is some tracking and it avoids some of the bolder frauds.

Whereas in the UK, until recently, no real evidence of ID was required. So I could have got married one day as Micky Mouse from Disneyworld, and the next as Donald Duck from Disneyland, and no enquiry would have been made as to whether a) I was Micky Mouse and b) whether I was free to marry.

So going back to this case, there was no way that the Registrar who conducted the first marriage would known of a subsequent bigamous marriage unless someone told him. Likewise the registrar at the second marriage had no duty to search for previous marriages. All he had to do was ask each party if they were free to marry. If either lied he would never normally know, and he was not obliged to check records acorss the UK, whereas in Europe there is an obligation to verfy the information. The UK has been a very trusting nation on such issues for many years. Many must have exploited this over the years.

Elwyn