Name of Military Court, Mauritius, 1854

[crisGloss]

Hi

I am seeking the name of the court which would have convicted an ancestor of mine of insubordination and desertion from the military, in Mauritius, in 1854. His convict record in Australia says he was semi-literate and "Army?". It seems he was 33 and his wife was 23 when he married! It is a major challenge to confirm his birth place and date, because he seems to hide it! I wonder why?

Apparently Colonial Office records stayed in the colony.

"Bolton's Mauritius Almanac, and Official Directory", by W. Draper Bolton, 1851, says the 5th Regiment of Foot (Northumberland Fusiliers), the 12th (East Suffolk) Regiment of Foot, the Royal Artillery and the Royal Sappers and Miners were there in 1851. The 12th were involved in the earlier taking of Mauritius, in 1810; and the current CO was "Colonel-General Robert Meade".

The Almanac says each Regiment except the Sappers was represented at the main Barracks, at Port Louis, and at Fort Adelaide. Royal Sappers and Miners were at the Caudon, Port Louis. A Military Hospital was also located in Port Louis, which suggests that the Military Prison would be there too, for convenience.

A British Hanzard entry records:
[HC Deb 20 November 1893 vol 18 c1275 1275 § Admiral FIELD (Sussex, Eastbourne)]

"...attention has been called to the Report of the Inspector of Military Prisons, July, 1893, respecting the Military Prison at Port Louis, Mauritius... and that of the chief warder in charge of the same...wherein it is shown to be situated on a low-lying site in a malarious climate, and to have various sanitary defects; that the health of the warders has been extremely bad, two having been invalided, eight assistant warders sent into hospital, and the only remaining warder has been 59 days sick and unfit to return to duty, all attributable to the quarters allotted for their use, which consists of only one room on ground surface, and no convenience for cooking..."

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1893/nov/20/port-louis-military-prison

It describes the Tribunals of Justice on the Island as the Court of Appeal of the Courts of Assize, the Court of First Instance, the Vice Admiralty, the Court of the Commissioners for offenses committed on the High Seas, the Supreme Court, and Magistrate Courts.

It also refers to the "President of a Court Martial", but does not name the court.

Does anyone know the name of the court which would have tried him; other than simply "Military Tribunal", and/or the name of the prison?

Uhh. Why did it have to be Mauritius?!|help|
Chris

[Lesley Robertson]

Hi

I am seeking the name of the court which would have convicted an ancestor of mine of insubordination and desertion from the military, in Mauritius, in 1854. His convict record in Australia says he was semi-literate and "Army?". It seems he was 33 and his wife was 23 when he married! It is a major challenge to confirm his birth place and date, because he seems to hide it! I wonder why?

Apparently Colonial Office records stayed in the colony.

"Bolton's Mauritius Almanac, and Official Directory", by W. Draper Bolton, 1851, says the 5th Regiment of Foot (Northumberland Fusiliers), the 12th (East Suffolk) Regiment of Foot, the Royal Artillery and the Royal Sappers and Miners were there in 1851. The 12th were involved in the earlier taking of Mauritius, in 1810; and the current CO was "Colonel-General Robert Meade".

The Almanac says each Regiment except the Sappers was represented at the main Barracks, at Port Louis, and at Fort Adelaide. Royal Sappers and Miners were at the Caudon, Port Louis. A Military Hospital was also located in Port Louis, which suggests that the Military Prison would be there too, for convenience.

A British Hanzard entry records:
[HC Deb 20 November 1893 vol 18 c1275 1275 § Admiral FIELD (Sussex, Eastbourne)]

"...attention has been called to the Report of the Inspector of Military Prisons, July, 1893, respecting the Military Prison at Port Louis, Mauritius... and that of the chief warder in charge of the same...wherein it is shown to be situated on a low-lying site in a malarious climate, and to have various sanitary defects; that the health of the warders has been extremely bad, two having been invalided, eight assistant warders sent into hospital, and the only remaining warder has been 59 days sick and unfit to return to duty, all attributable to the quarters allotted for their use, which consists of only one room on ground surface, and no convenience for cooking..."

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1893/nov/20/port-louis-military-prison
It describes the Tribunals of Justice on the Island as the Court of Appeal of the Courts of Assize, the Court of First Instance, the Vice Admiralty, the Court of the Commissioners for offenses committed on the High Seas, the Supreme Court, and Magistrate Courts.

It also refers to the "President of a Court Martial", but does not name the court.

Does anyone know the name of the court which would have tried him; other than simply "Military Tribunal", and/or the name of the prison?

Uhh. Why did it have to be Mauritius?!|help|
Chris


Have you searched the National Archives catalogue? http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ Most military stuff seems to turn up there.

Lesley

[crisGloss]

Thanks Lesley

I had been to The National Archives before, but this time I used a different tactic, which got me to the Queensland Government's Digital Library/British convict transportation registers 1787-1867 [http://www.slq.qld.gov.au/info/fh/convicts] This contained information not contained in Western Australian Convict Records [at Fremantle Gaol website]; namely:


"Convicted at Mauritius, Port Louis General Court Martial for a term of 10 years. Penal Servitude 16402".

I do not know what the number means...a case number?

There were convicts from Scotland and Ireland and overseas locations on my ancestor's ship to Western Australia, including a court martialed soldier from Malta, and one from Quebec. So it was the practice to round them up to England; then send them to Australia.

Now I am looking to find the trial record and also how he got back to England.

Thanks
Chris

[harfin]

Hi
You may be able to get some help from the current National Archives of Mauritius.

I haven;t been in touch with them for a year or so but the last time I did make contact the details were:

NATIONAL ARCHIVES
Development Bank of Mauritius Complex
Petite Riviere,
Mauritius

Tel. 233-4469/233-7341. Fax 233-4299
e-mail: arc@mail.gov.mu

They certainly held a fair amount of details about my sister-in-law's forbear and his movements and even the records of a court case her g.g.grandfather was involved with.

Good luck
Alan

[crisGloss]

Thank you Alan
I had emailed the Mauritius Prisons Service without reply; so now I know better. |cheers|I will follow your suggestion.

Regarding Enforcement of the Court Sentence
For those who have been following this journey I have discovered that convicts sent first to Britain, to await their transportation to the colonies, experienced the "Hulk System", which was quite humane.:) The hulks were large vessels without masts which had been line-of-battle ships or frigates, fitted up for the reception of male convicts sentenced to be transported. These floating prisons were moored near a dock-yard: "so that the labour of the convicts could be applied to the public service".:

"It will be hardly credited that there are usually about 3000 men in this country thus employed".[1834]

They were then sent out in gangs to work on shore, guarded by soldiers.


"A correct chronicle is kept of the conduct of each individual , and the captain, jointly with the chaplain, has the privilege of recommending annually a certain number as fit objects for a mitigation of punishment; so that it very frequently occurs that a convict sentenced to seven years transportation, only serves three and a half or four years"
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~jwilliams4/hulks34.htm
The type of record available is demonstrated in the Tasmanian Catalogue of Fische
(http://www.aigs.org.au/tasmaniaff1.htm#CON)

There were two "out stations" [of the hulk system] under British Government control at Bermuda (1829-1864) and Gibraltar (1842-1870) :D and two hulks stationed in Ireland at Cork and Dublin under part Irish administration (1823-1838).


"From 1847 to 1858 there was a Managerial Committee [for the Hulk System], which was chaired by Joshua Jebb, [sic] this was concerned with all Prisons. "
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~jwilliams4/hulks.htm


"The hulk system was eventually discontinued in 1856, the Woolwich hulks being the last to be closed. The remaining convicts were transferred to [newly opened] Chatham Gaol".
Chatham gaol was opened in 1856 ("Crime, Punishment, and Reform in Europe"
by Mary Anne Nichols, Louis A). My ancestor was transported to Australia in 1858; so he may have been held for at least part of the time in Chatham goal.:D |cheers|

Other "public works [convict] prisons" in use at the time included Portland -- opened 1949, Dartmoor --modernised in 1850, Portsmouth 1852.


"The work within the new prisons included labour on naval docks, quarrying and in agriculture..." ("Crime, Punishment, and Reform in Europe" by Mary Anne Nichols, Louis A)

Photo of Woolwich Hulks & Clothing Worn by Convicts on Woolwich Hulks
http://www.royal-arsenal.com/convicts.html/convdress.jpg
http://www.royal-arsenal.com/convicts.html

Chris

[harfin]

I will follow your suggestion.

Chris

I meant to have cautioned you about the length of time to reply - Mauritius seem to have a different concept of time. Don't expect speed, urgency, prompt etc - it's not in their vocabulary!

Alan

[Terry Reeves]

It was a military matter so he would have been tried by the military (hence Courts Martial) and not a civil court. The regimental muster books and pay rolls, if they still exist, would note his absence from duty and why and what his punishment was.

Terry Reeves

[crisGloss]

Hi everyone

Thanks so much for your input |grouphug|.

It has been a great journey already! I think I have reached the point now where to access trial records, regimental muster books and pay rolls I will need a service-for-fee provider, which so far I have done without. I am working on getting credits through WAGS, Perth WA.

[1] I will also be working on getting info from Chatham Goal records about his possible stay there. The National Archives Research Guide to finding info about convicts (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?sLeafletURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationa larchives.gov.uk%2Fcatalogue%2Fleaflets%2Fri2235.h tm&lBack=-1) says quarterly returns of convicts in prisons and hulks, 1824-76, are found in HO 8 .

Finding how you get this info is my next task....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary of Information Thus far |help|

James Joseph Glossop, father George, mother Mary Walsh; suspected born 1825 in Greasbrough, Rotherham District, Yorkshire -- looking for corroboration that this is him, as birth date of suspect conflicts with convict record. Possibly member of the 12th (East Suffolk) Regiment of Foot during 1853 . James was court-martialed at Port Louis, Mauritius by [B]General Court Martial, in 1854 [http://www.slq.qld.gov.au/info/fh/convicts]. He was transported from Plymouth in August, 1858 on the Edwin Fox (http://www.slq.qld.gov.au/info/fh/convicts), and arrived in Fremantle on November 20, 1858.

Colonial Records suggest that under the "Hulk System", he could have spent time on the following floating prison ships, awaiting deportation:

vessel: Warrior 1840-57 Woolwich

vessel: Defence 1850-57 Portsmouth/Woolwich

Quarterly returns of convicts in prisons and hulks, 1824-76, are found in HO 8

The hulk system was eventually discontinued in 1856, the Woolwich hulks being the last to be closed. The remaining convicts were transferred to [newly opened] Chatham Gaol.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[2] I am waiting for a reply from Mauritius National Archives on the trial record.

I may have to move this to another sub-forum.

Thanks again.
regards to all
Chris G

[crisGloss]

Summary of Information Thus far |help|

James Joseph Glossop, father George, mother Mary Walsh; suspected born 1825 in Greasbrough, Rotherham District, Yorkshire -- looking for corroboration that this is him, as birth date of suspect conflicts with convict record. Possibly member of the 12th (East Suffolk) Regiment of Foot during 1853 .

Colonial Records suggest that under the "Hulk System", he could have spent time on the following floating prison ships, awaiting deportation:

vessel: [B]Warrior 1840-57 Woolwich

vessel: Defence 1850-57 Portsmouth/Woolwich
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Found out at Library:
[1] The Reserves Battalion of 12th Regiment of Foot also left Mauritius in 1851!|banghead|
That leaves the Royal Artillery and the Miners and Sappers; the latter did recruiting in Yorkshire abt 1850 and were in Mauritius in 1851. They built canals and used boats|idea| [see Forum on Smiths for "puddler?"]
[2] His father's occupation, as well as James' [at age 15], was "coal miner".
[3] By 1847, the hulk ships were mainly only used for invalid convicts or those too weak to be a problem. So period 1855--1858: if they were strong their were put in the public works prisons [I]|oopsredfa; mainly in Chatham Prison [source: p198: "The English Prison Hulks";W. Brand-Johnson; 1957]

Chris

[harfin]

Sorry Chris I meant to also add that at least one army person that I am aware of (it being the chap I had occasion to contact the Mauritius Archives over), was in a "regiment" that wasn't actually en bloc in Mauritius.

My chap was in the Commissariat Staff Corps (later to develop into the Royal Army Service Corps) when he went there, but there is no reference I found to state that the CSC were actually in Mauritius. My chap subsequently was assigned to what I assume was the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and worked as an pretty lowly administrator within the British Administration in Mauritius.

He was there from around 1854 or 1855 and many years later retired back to the UK

Good luck
Alan

[crisGloss]

"...there is no reference I found to state that the CSC were actually in Mauritius...the Foreign and Commonwealth Office...there from around 1854 or 1855..."

Very interesting. One has to think outside the square...

Freedom of Choice of Regiment
As far as guessing the Regiment goes, is proximity of the soldier's birthplace to a depot of a local Regiment a strong factor in the Regiment joined, or is it almost irrelevant? Is it possible applicants could be distributed to the most needy regiment, like one in Ireland, even though they live in Essex. I am wondering what the Military's policy was with respect to an applicant's freedom of choice.

And, I wonder what the geographical centre was for the Sappers and Miners... who were in Mauritius in 1851.


Thanks
Chris

[harfin]

proximity of the soldier's birthplace to a depot of a local Regiment a strong factor in the Regiment joined

My father born in Ramsgate in Kent but who lived in Hackney pre WW1 signed up with the Royal Dublin Fusiliers who were recruiting locally. Certainly not a "local regiment", but admittedly my dad did have a previous generation connection with Ireland.

Alan

[crisGloss]

Hi

Being rather desperate for clues, and in the style of a forensic scientist, I have been looking carefully at my ancestor's tattoos:

Marks: Sailor J C crown two swords woman L F W left arm

A crown with swords is reminiscent of the flag of the British Army. This gives me confidence that "sailor" means a drawing of a sailor. I think the initials are actually "JG", my ancestor's initials, but were less clear at time of inspection / noting down.

My supposition is that he was a boatman in the Army.... The Sappers and Miners used boats extensively in the work of improving harbours.

Chris

[crisGloss]

As far as guessing the Regiment, is proximity of the soldier's birthplace to a depot of a local Regiment a strong factor in the Regiment joined, or is it almost irrelevant?


Turns out he joined the 85th (Bucks Volunteers--The King's Light Infantry) Regiment, 1st Battalion, in 1852, which was in Mauritius 1853-1856. :) Within 2 years he was court martialed, in 1854.

Buckinghamshire, I understand, is Milton Keynes / Luton territory, and quite a long way from Sheffield!

I feel this thread is still current because I am awaiting the results of enquiries on the Court Martial and may have some more queries.

Chris

[leonardpiggin]

Turns out he joined the 85th (Bucks Volunteers--The King's Light Infantry) Regiment, 1st Battalion, in 1852, which was in Mauritius 1853-1856. :) Within 2 years he was court martialed, in 1854.

Buckinghamshire, I understand, is Milton Keynes / Luton territory, and quite a long way from Sheffield!

I feel this thread is still current because I am awaiting the results of enquiries on the Court Martial and may have some more queries.

Chris

Courts Martial
I dont Think the army had a special place to hold Courts Martial .From my time in the army I remember they could be held anywhere. I remember one court martial being held in a marquee so I think any records would be held by the War Office or its equivalent today i.e Ministry of Defence.
Len Piggin

[crisGloss]

Hi Len

Thanks for your point. I am sorry; my threads are rather wordy to read to get the intermediate outcome.

Buried in in this thread somewhere I report that "Bolton's Mauritius Almanac, and Official Directory" [mainly of public servants, by W. Draper Bolton, 1851] refers to the "President of a Court Martial" in Mauritius, but does not actually name the court.

I have since found out from the Convict Records on the QLD govt site [http://www.slq.qld.gov.au/info/fh/convicts] that the name of the court for such a serious offence is "General Court Martial". It seemed to me, at the time, to be important for finding the right record in the The National Archives, UK. Indeed, there are different collections of records, according to severity of crime; whether an officer or from ordinary ranks; and whether at home or abroad. Whether it was entirely necessary, I am doubtful, but it made me feel confident, when I read the series offered online, to see "General Courts" mentioned in connection with it!

I am pleased to report that I have since ordered the specific microfiche for the type of court record I need, from the National Archives Australia, and had it sent to my local State Library. I get to look at, for free, tomorrow.|woohoo|

I'll post the result. Thanks again for your interest.

Chris

[crisGloss]

Hi Len

I'll post the result. Thanks again for your interest.

|banghead| HINT-- re AUSTRALIA It pays when ordering something from the National Archives, Australia, in my case 2000km away, to check the order the local library has made; and see that the necessary notations have been made in their own system, because we are not dealing with a business here.:D

What happened?:

the response took three weeks;
the wrong fische arrived;
the notation against the order did not say it was for me, but for the librarian!:confused:


But, while there I asked about a collection of papers the family were alleged to have donated to the local Archives, and found a bucket load of information. |jumphappy So I guess I can't be too upset! |scold|

If we had an icon for an owl in the system, I would pick/show the one which looks a little wiser...:)

Chris

[crisGloss]

I am awaiting the results of enquiries on the Court Martial and may have some more queries.


:confused: Well, I have searched the fiche and it is not what I expected! Apparently WO90 is just a summary of the Court Martial. |banghead| Three months wait.....

The entry shows that he could have received "corporal punishment and imprisonment", when he went for sentencing, but he showed some special creativity in his communication with the court, which resulted in the entry:


"Corporal punishment and imprisonment... cancelled for obscene language before the court." |nutkick|

Instead he got: "8 years penal servitude" !! |5cups|

See segment of record here http://picasaweb.google.com.au/lh/photo/RJdoa10_AJYggCEshWxSqg?authkey=B33jjw1YPak&feat=directlink

It takes a particularly smart head to give a court a mouthful, just as you are about to receive a lighter sentence compared to your mate, who was sentenced to 4 years penal servitude for obscene language, only 10 days before! |oopsredfa

Such incredibly foolish behaviour makes me think it was deliberate. It may have been designed to:

avoid corporal punishment; or
get himself transported to a colony, with his mate James King.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The entry raises two questions:

How severe would corporal punishment have been back then, in 1854? and
What is the notation highlighted on the segment of the record: "Los..." ?

Did my GGG demonstrate incredible stupidity, or amazing mateship, in the aussie tradition?

Merry Christmas people.|wave| Not expecting any response until after the festive season...

Chris

[Finbar]

How severe would corporal punishment have been back then, in 1854?

Hi Cris.
He would probably have been flogged with the cat o' nine tails. In 1836, the maximum flogging sentence that could be handed out by a General Court Martial had been reduced to 200 strokes, so it's unlikely he would have been sentenced to more.
In 1846, Private Frederick John White of the 7th Hussars died as a result of receiving 150 lashes.

Finbar.

[crisGloss]

Hi Cris.
He would probably have been flogged with the cat o' nine tails... In 1846, Private Frederick John White of the 7th Hussars died as a result of receiving 150 lashes.
Finbar.

He may have been "semi-literate" but it seems he could read between the lines! Me thinks he made the right decision. "Good"lad.:D

Thanks Finbar.

Merry Christmas
Chris

[crisGloss]

Chris

I meant to have cautioned you about the length of time to reply - Mauritius seem to have a different concept of time. Don't expect speed, urgency, prompt etc - it's not in their vocabulary!

Alan

I have received a reply to my enquiry of 3 Nov 2008 to the

NATIONAL ARCHIVES
Development Bank of Mauritius Complex
Petite Riviere, Mauritius

They say:

"...we have retrieved several documents|hug| relating to James Joseph Glossop...."|jumphappy

Now I have to send the money for copies.

Cheers
Chris

[harfin]

Great news Chris!

For the documents they found for my family I found the simplest relatively risk-free payment method to be an International Money Order obtained through the local post office here in the UK; not sure if Oz post office do the same thing though.

If I recall correctly, I tried to find more detailed on-line general information on Mauritius, but all I got were just the odd pages here and there. I had hoped to find more in-depth historical and social history details, like what conditions were like, perhaps the odd image or photo, what facilities there were and so on; Mauritius has joined my list of places I would like to visit though!

Hope you let us all know whether the "new" documents have been worthwhile!

Best of luck
Alan

ps it's a loooooooong swim from Mauritius to WA so again, don't expect the documents to turn up in a week or two
:)

[crisGloss]

I found the simplest relatively risk-free payment method to be an International Money Order obtained through the local post office...
I tried to find more detailed on-line general information on Mauritius, but all I got were just the odd pages here and there.

...don't expect the documents to turn up in a week or two
:)

Thanks for the info abt IMO and Mauritius slow mail.

Here is a book I read, having an incredible amount of info abt Mauritius back in the 19th C, including drawings:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=BvsJAAAAIAAJ&dq=A+Narrative+of+a+Visit+to+the+Mauritius&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=cjVi9HI0mW&sig=enpCgheEZegqFCUsIpK6_DT0ZcY&hl=en&ei=KrePSbirHIGEsQOf2sGcCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPR2,M1

Thanks Alan
Chris

[harfin]

. . . . . Here is a book I read, having an incredible amount of info abt Mauritius back in the 19th C, including drawings:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=BvsJAAAAIAAJ&dq=A+Narrative+of+a+Visit+to+the+Mauritius&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=cjVi9HI0mW&sig=enpCgheEZegqFCUsIpK6_DT0ZcY&hl=en&ei=KrePSbirHIGEsQOf2sGcCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPR2,M1 . . . .

Thanks for that link Chris - a really interesting read. I've also passed it on to my sister-in-law who's great grandfather on her mother's side was there in the mid to late 1800's, and who's great grandfather on her father's side was born in the Cape Colony. Double whammie!

Good luck with your endeavours
Alan