Pte Matthew COOPER 2nd Btn Rifle

[Penny Gallo]

I'm puzzled. I know from looking at original Census documents and from family word-of-mouth that my great-great grandfather Matthew Cooper was a cork-cutter (a family trade). However, it was also a family story (from his granddaughter) that he had fought in the Crimean War. I was discussing it with my brother the other day and he recalls being told that Matthew was wounded by a sabre across his face. We do know that he was blind when he died (the children used to feed him strawberries, and he could always tell when they had taken a bite out first themselves) - but that could easily have been a result of the cork-cutting which was hard on eyesight. However on the 1881 census he is listed as being "Cork-cutter and Army Pensioner".

The other day I found a website http://surreygenealogist.com/ which does indeed list two possible entries:

Pte Matthew Cooper, 18 June 1855 wounded first attack on the Redan. 2nd Batn, Rifle Brigade.
Pte Matthew Cooper, 14 Aug 1855 wounded. 2nd Batn Rifle Brigade.

My questions are:
(1) I know there is a complete list of Crimean soldiers in book form, but would it give more details than this list, eg where a man came from, or his former trade? (This to try to confirm that it is my Matthew Cooper).

(2) What is a cork-cutter doing in a Rifle Battalion? Is this likely? Was this a battalion recruiting in the East End of London? He would have been about 20 at the time of the Siege of Sebastopol.

(3) Sabre cut to face: would this have been likely in the hand-to-hand fighting of the trenches on the Redan?

(4) Could both of the Matthew Coopers be the same man wounded and then returned to the field?

I don't know much about Crimean history and have just embarked on a pile of books to learn more about it. Roger Fenton's photographs are amazing. I have tried to look at the National Archives site but it seems to say that the place where i could find info about his discharge is in the course of three-year digitisation project.

Any suggestions, anyone?

[neil1821]

To answer you questions:

(1) I don't know of such a book, but you'd have to look for his service papers at Kew to confirm if this is indeed the right Matthew Cooper.

(2) "What is a cork-cutter doing in a Rifle Battalion?" Not sure I can answer that one, except to say his former trade is completely irrelevant in this respect! Nothing unlikely about him being in the army in any regiment.
The Rifle Brigade had no particular geographical connections and recruited all over the UK.

(3) Again, entirely possible.

(4) Could be, but you'd have to look at medal rolls, musters or a more detailed casualty list to confirm. If they're the same man then you'll see the same regimental number against the names. If different numbers, then they're different men.

[Penny Gallo]

Many thanks for responding! The book in (1) is mentioned elsewhere on Brit-Gen Crimean threads. I'll post the name onto this one when my partner isn't breathing down my nexk with, "Have you finished on that computer yet?".

I had a feeling they would take any man young and strong enough, no matter what his previous calling. I have just been reading a very interesting short diary kept by an ordinary soldier in the Crimea (lent to me by an academic friend, Facebook having unexpected benefits!) - he was enrolled en route to get work from relatives in London. He mentions the 2nd Btn Rifle, so I know whereabouts Matthew Cooper was ([I]if[I] he was) there, and what it was like to be a common soldier during that war. I am also engrossed in the diary of Lady Duberly (originally published in 1855, which resulted in her being paraodied in "Punch" and appearing as a travesty in the damn silly 1968 film "Charge of the Light Brigade").

[Kerrywood]

I have tried to look at the National Archives site but it seems to say that the place where i could find info about his discharge is in the course of three-year digitisation project

Have you found him in 1871? If he was discharged to pension before 1872 I think his papers should be in WO 97/1691, if after 1873 they should be in WO 97/2159. As far as I can see, neither of these series is being digitised at present, but work on the earlier series starts on 1 December. TNA's digitisation schedule for digitising WO 97 is here (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/stories/212.htm)

Kerrywood

[Lesley Robertson]

Many thanks for responding! The book in (1) is mentioned elsewhere on Brit-Gen Crimean threads. I'll post the name onto this one when my partner isn't breathing down my nexk with, "Have you finished on that computer yet?".

I had a feeling they would take any man young and strong enough, no matter what his previous calling. I have just been reading a very interesting short diary kept by an ordinary soldier in the Crimea (lent to me by an academic friend, Facebook having unexpected benefits!) - he was enrolled en route to get work from relatives in London. He mentions the 2nd Btn Rifle, so I know whereabouts Matthew Cooper was ([i]if[i] he was) there, and what it was like to be a common soldier during that war. I am also engrossed in the diary of Lady Duberly (originally published in 1855, which resulted in her being paraodied in "Punch" and appearing as a travesty in the damn silly 1968 film "Charge of the Light Brigade").


If books are out of copyright, it's worth having a look for them on the Internet Archive - they have an astounding range of stuff available for download (it helps if you have a fast connection, mind you).

Lesley

[Penny Gallo]

Thank you very much for these helpful suggestions. I'll see if this gets any further results. The "Army Pensioner" wasn't mentioned on either the 1861 or the 1871 census, but I wasn't sure whether enumerators had been instructed to be more particular as to inserting information, or whether he just didn't bother mentioning that fact on the previous census.

I've managed to get my brother interested now, and we are busy with the RN records of Matthew's grandson. So many records - so little time! At least my brother knows which ship name is what type of vessel - that's saved Brit-Gen-ers a long list with "Which ones were submarines?"

Joining Brit Gen has really made my research come on in leaps and bounds!|jumphappy

[Geoffers]

my great-great grandfather Matthew Cooper.....had fought in the Crimean War. I was discussing it with my brother the other day and he recalls being told that Matthew was wounded by a sabre across his face........on the 1881 census he is listed as being "Cork-cutter and Army Pensioner".?

I'd go with the first reply and try looking for a service record - to begin tracing that, you will need to think about trying to refine what you know of him (indeed, you may already have the following).

What is the earliest date that you know your chap was not in the army? - e.g. does he appear in the 1861 or 1871 census - in or out of the army?

When were his children born? Would they have been born whilst he was in the army? Do you have any birth certificates for them - what is his occupation?

When and where did he marry? What was his occupation at time of marriage?