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robbiej
14-10-2008, 11:24 AM
I have a JEAN OR JANE LIDDELL (or LIDDLE) B/1815 ? Possibly married 16th Sept. 1838.
It is a possible that Jean or Jane Liddell married 16th Sept 1838 but I am not certain of this,
HER Parents I have nothing on ....???
They are as I have it..
William Liddell B/ ? D/? married ? to Jean Jervis B/ ? D/?

Help here would be appreciated.
Thanks .
J

Lesley Robertson
14-10-2008, 11:34 AM
I have a JEAN OR JANE LIDDELL (or LIDDLE) B/1815 ? Possibly married 16th Sept. 1838.
It is a possible that Jean or Jane Liddell married 16th Sept 1838 but I am not certain of this,
HER Parents I have nothing on ....???
They are as I have it..
William Liddell B/ ? D/? married ? to Jean Jervis B/ ? D/?

Help here would be appreciated.
Thanks .
J


Any idea where? Even a country would help since the location of archives, certification, etc differs for the different countries in the UK.
Lesleu

robbiej
15-10-2008, 6:15 AM
OOPS.. Sorry LESLEY.
Scotland is the Country...All my rellies are from Scotland, but ofcourse others would not know that.
Well I presume it is ! The marriage I have is for Nov 4th 1834 Central Dist. GLASGOW. I could not find it on Scotland'sPeople.... and yes I realise that before 1855 they didn't often or have to register... I always look at S/P first, in the hope !
Is there any where else that one can search other than there ?
Again...My humble apologies...|oopsredfa

colashbury
15-10-2008, 7:23 AM
Found a Jean Liddell on the IGI Records,born 21 Nov 1815 in Cadder,Lanark.Also parents Thomas Liddell born around 1784 and Janet Jarvis about 1788 in the same place.Hope this helps.......Colin

colashbury
15-10-2008, 7:37 AM
Found a Jean Liddel married in Oct 1836 to a William Donaldson in Shotts,Lanark......Colin

colashbury
15-10-2008, 7:42 AM
Also found one in her Birth town of Cadder in 1838 married to a John Campbell on the 16th September.....Colin

robbiej
16-10-2008, 3:49 AM
Thanks Colashbury,
I now have Jean Liddel's Death Cert. and in it it says, she died 14th Feb 1884. Daughter of GEORGE Liddell, Farmer, and Janet M/s.Jarvis .There is a note on it that she was married to.
1.. John Campbell, Publisher. 16 Sept.1838 (presume he died ? and she remarried)
2... George MUIR, Acountant, whom she divorced March 18. 1874 (That could be interesting reading if I could get a script of it !:o)
No mention of the William Doaldson, so I guess that puts him out of the picture.
Also her Father being George and not Thomas, (although I originally had it as William), so it looks as if I was incorrect on both counts there.
I will have another look on S/P re her Birth, and the marriages, and see if I can get them.
Thanks, you have given me dates which I can zero in at, and see what I can find.
Thanks a million. Every bit helps doesn't it !|angel|
J

Lesley Robertson
16-10-2008, 9:10 AM
2... George MUIR, Acountant, whom she divorced March 18. 1874 (That could be interesting reading if I could get a script of it !:o)



According to the extracted part of the IGI, that marriage was Sept 1858 Central District of Glasgow, which means there should be a marriage cert. This would confirm her parents. It would also tell you what denomination they were (from what sort of Minister married them) - if they weren't CoS, they wouldn't necessarily turn up in SP.
I see that Jean and George had one dau - Janet Jervis M. - in 1860, which would also tend to confirm her mother's name.
There's also one child - Thomas Campbell - listed for the first marriage, bap in Jan 1844 in Barony, Lanark. If course, this may not be all the kids, just the bap entry that also mentions the mother's name. It gives quite a wide time frame fo John's death, so it might be worth looking for them in the 1851.

Playing the guestimation game, she must have been reasonably young at her first marriage to have had Thomas in 1860... If she was 20ish in 1838, she'd have only been 42ish in 1860, easily possible. So if her parents had produced her in their 20s in 1818ish, they'd only be in their 40s or 50s for the 1841 and 50s or 60s for the 1851, and might even have survived to get death certs. remember that the SP search engine doesn't handle spelling variations, - Liddel*, Lid*le should throw up most of them.

Lesley

Lesley Robertson
16-10-2008, 9:23 AM
1.. John Campbell, Publisher. 16 Sept.1838 (presume he died ? and she remarried)


I've just been checking the Book Trade lists on the National Library site. There's no mention of a John Campbell, publisher, at the moment, but they do describe it as a work in progress. It might be worth asking them if they've heard anything of him.
It might also be worth checking any trade directories for the period - I know that Rod Neep had released a couple on CD, so they're probably still in the Parish Chest catalogue somewhere.

Lesley

colashbury
16-10-2008, 3:32 PM
Found a Liddel family from Glasgow that may be of help.
David (Father)born about 1760 and married 1784 to-
Margaret Macdonald born 20th Jan 1761
Children
Andrew 21st Oct 1802
Alexander 25th July 1800
Jane or Jean 3rd May 1794 to 2nd Jan 1827
Mary 18th May 1792
Margaret 25th April 1790
George 10 SEP 1788
Agnes 21 Nov 1786
All born in Lanark ,Glasgow...

ash33au
17-10-2008, 1:58 PM
I've got Liddell's as one of my main lines, but they are from Airth in Stirlingshire.

robbiej
18-10-2008, 11:16 PM
Thank you Colasbury and Lesley,
I have printed all that off and will work through it and see what I can find.
My you people are a mine of information... What would we do without you.You are special GEMS... that's for sure.|angel|
J

robbiej
11-07-2009, 2:24 PM
|blush| Sorry Colashbury and Leslie, I should have replied sooner. Health problems.
Thank you for the Info provided. As usual you are extremely helpful...
NOW..... I am wondering if you or anyone there,
Can tell me....|help|
IS there a telephone directory/ street direstory or ? similar that covers the Glasgow or Leith areas for around the 1800 era ?
I remember a long time ago|laugh1| when I first started out on this Tree hunting, I looked at such a 'book', but over time and change of computers etc. I have lost the connection.
Maybe someone there can put me in the righ direction Please.
|idea| I THINK it was a street directory....!
ALSO.. Is there a Tailoring Trades Directory for that era ??
robbiej

colashbury
12-07-2009, 6:34 AM
Hope you are now well and can continue your search.
Firstly, the telephone was invented about 1876, so I guess that puts the telephone directory out. Think your best bet maybe church records. Is there not a local church for the area that you are looking at.
Are you signed up to Ancestry.co.uk. They are usually good with all the earlier info.

scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-003-524-C

http://www.glasgowguide.co.uk/info-tya.html
Found these. Have a look through them.
Dont know if they are any use as havent used them myself.
Speak soon
Colin

robbiej
13-07-2009, 4:22 AM
Thanks J
I have all the Liddell's but was after another line, which I did a post on ages ago. Robertson's..Who was Edward's father.. well we found that it was JOHN... SO... John Robertson to Margaret ? More ???supposed Parents of Edward Robertson B/1821 Sth Leith and christened in the St James' Episcopal Church, Constitution Street, Leith..February 1821
John is correct and the Margaret is correct - BUT More etc ??????
I have..from the Research Centre in Edinburgh.."""EDWARD ROBERTSON, son of John Robertson and Margaret, his wife, was born 15/2/1821 and baptised 11th inst"""" It did not state HER maiden name although I was given ""More.. or Moore etc""" which ofcourse could be wrong !
They are elusive to say the least.
Both presumably born in Sth Leith, as all the family through have been from there. But- at least Margaret was, according to information I was given...(born in Feb,1793 and died Sth Leith 1881 aged 88 yrs).
Strangely the Census I have - which I think came from Ancestry says on it """Birth abt 1793 ACCORDING TO DEATH CERTIFICATE.""".. ALSO..WHICH I CANNOT LOCATE, and there are only about 30 of them on s/people,!!! and it would cost me heaps to see them all..AH. Being in NZ is not easy !!
I have the Baptism of Edward, and his Death in 1900 Sth Leith... but no marriage of his parents, and I thought that if I could locate some sort of directory... (Yes I realise that the 'phone was not around then!) I might just be able to locate them either prior to his, Edward's baptism, or in the years between 1855 - 1881 when she died, HE isn't on that 1881 census. which means he possibly died much earlier on.
No, I don't subscribe to Ancestry, although I did join Gene's in the ''hope'' !! No luck....!!!
It's a bit of a puzzle really. All that can be loacted is a Margaret JACK to a John Robertson, but so far haven't been able to find any children. I have a Margaret Jack in the 1881 Census with presumably sisters by the name of BLACK...
Hence the query... Any ideas would be welcome, as it would seem that the St James' Episcopal Church, Leith is not on S/People...where possibly... they married...???!!
robbiej

JAP1
13-07-2009, 6:48 AM
From ScotlandsPeople there is the death of a Margaret ROBERTSON, other surname JACK, age 86, in Leith South in 1881.

This might or might not be Margaret, mother of your Edward ROBERTSON.

What information is on Edward's death certificate? Does it give his mother's maiden surname?

From the IGI, an Edward ROBERTSON married an Elizabeth GLEN in Leith South in 1845 (extracted entry). From the IGI they had Elisabeth in 1848 (extracted) and Margaret in 1853 (LDS submission).

1851 census has, in Elbe St, Leith South, Edward b ca 1822 a bottle maker, wife Elizabeth, and 2yo daughter Elizabeth.

1871 census has, at 7 Livingston Place, Leith South, Edward b ca 1821 a bottle maker, son Edward b ca 1851 a draper, and daughter Margt b ca 1854.

JAP

JAP1
13-07-2009, 9:37 AM
Hello again RobbieJ,

I see from your other threads that you have the 1900 death cert of Edward ROBERTSON. Rather difficult to read! As the informant was Edward's granddaughter (Maggie HENDRIX??), she might well not have known the correct details for her great-grandparents.

Do you have any information about Maggie? Her parents' names, etc?

The Margaret ROBERTSON, other name JACK, who died in 1881 can be traced in censuses. But, as far as I can see, nothing to tie her to your Edward unfortunately. And some pretty poor transcriptions. You can view the original census images (for a small charge) on ScotlandsPeople

1841
Yardhead Manjs Court, South Leith, Midlothian
Margaret ROBERTSON, 45
John ROBERTSON, 25, Sailer Merch A
James ROBERTSON, 15,
Joan ROBERTSON, 5
All born in the county


1861
25 Salamannder Place, South Leith, Midlothian
Margaret ROBERTSON, 69, Head, Asins Widow, b Leith
Joan ROBERTSON, 28, Daughter, Laundress, b Leith
Catherine ARMSTRONG, 32, Boarder, Worker Colom Works, b Leith

1881
24 Kirkgate, South Leith, Midlothian
Joan BLACK, 47, Head, Office Cleaner, b Leith
Alexander BLACK, 15, Son, Printer, b Leith
Margaret BLACK, 13, Daughter, Scholar, b Leith
Joan BLACK, 11, Daughter, Scholar, b Leith
Margaret ROBERTSON, 88, Mother, b Leith

The IGI has the following baptism:
Joanna ROBERTSON, parents John ROBERTSON & Margaret JACK, 2 Mar 1833, South Leith.
And the following marriage:
Jean ROBERTSON m John B BLACK, 1862, Leith.
And the following children to John BLACK & Joan ROBERTSON:
Alexander BLACK 1866
Margaret Jack BLACK 1867
Joan Bruce BLACK 1870

JAP

Mary Young
13-07-2009, 7:48 PM
The Margaret ROBERTSON, other name JACK, who died in 1881 can be traced in censuses. But, as far as I can see, nothing to tie her to your Edward unfortunately. JAP
I agree, I can't see any connection to EDWARD ROBERTSON or his mother, MARGARET MORE/MOIR/MOORE

Just to round out the picture, here's the marriage of JOHN B. BLACK to JOAN ROBERTSON, which confirms her mother's maiden name as MARGARET JACK.
Marriage 1862 South Leith, Edinburgh 692/02 0118
11th July 1862 at Foxes Lane, St Andrews Street, Leith after Free Church banns.
JOHN B. BLACK labourer in lead works, bachelor age 34; 118 Kirkgate, Leith
Alexander Black, shoemaker decd.; Margaret Black ms Lamb decd.
JEAN ROBERTSON, domestic servant, spinster age 30; 15 Salamander Street, South Leith
John Robertson, mason decd. Margaret Robertson ms Jack
Witnesses: John Sisenhame [?], labourer, 16 Kirkgate, Leith
Jas. Robertson, seaman, 15 Foxes Lane.

robbiej
14-07-2009, 4:01 AM
Thank you Mary, and thanks for the Cert. Yours is dated 1862, which would be too late for say... the Birth Of Edward 1821, wouldn't it ? THEN ofcourse, is the finding of the children to tie in Edward and them... Nothing on LDS that I could see...
....All these Black's & Jacks's - almost as bad as my three Edward's !!
I have another one which Sara found, which possibly ties in with John being Edward's father. I am pretty sure that the Father was a JOHN,... also according to Scotland'sP writing... so going by that..
Yes I have those Certs of 1841, 61 & 81... Confusing !!
ON A John Robertson to Margaret Jack Marriage cert (OPR 20.8.1811 South Leith) it says John Roberson, Mason to Margaret Jack, ??denter,South Leith were married 20th Aug 1811.( He...John.. was a MASON)...
I have just had a call today, from the LDS here in Christchurch NZ,,, to say that the films I ordered LAST OCTOBER !! are now here and so will try and get there next week and have a look and see if there is anything on them. I have almost forgotten what I ordered to see !
JAP1...Please, is it possible....Can you give me the number of the death Cert on S/People and I will have a look at it. Thanks. Any avenue is worth the effort !!
Thanks all of you for your troubles and advice. Will get back.
robbiej

JAP1
14-07-2009, 5:53 AM
Hi again robbiej,

1. The word you have queried in the marriage entry for John ROBERTSON a mason & Margaret JACK is almost certainly 'residenter'. It just means that Margaret was living in South Leith.

2. The reference on SP for the death cert of Margaret (nee JACK) ROBERTSON is:
1881
ROBERTSON Margaret
other surname JACK
F
86
Leith South
Edinburgh City/Midlothian
GROS Data 692/02, 0527

Not that this really helps you - if you wish to view/download the actual certificate you will need to do that search yourself. 1 credit for the search then 5 credits to view/download.

3. Do you have any information on the informant on Edward ROBERTSON's 1900 death cert - granddaughter Maggie HENDRIX(?)
I asked this because I thought that if we could trace her backwards it just might produce some clues.

Regards,

JAP

robbiej
15-07-2009, 9:37 AM
Hi Jap1, Yes you are right in your summing up... I think the other daughter Elizabeth b/1848, must have died as I can't find anything on her.
Margaret (Maggie) Hendrie b/1853.16 Jan,... was the daughter of Edward b/1821 (Bottlemaker) and Elizabeth Glen. (Edward b/1852 a Tailor) was her Brother).
She married John Hendrie in 1872, and had a number of Children. 6.. I think it was.
I don't think that any info is gained from her Birth or Marriage Cert. On the Birth it just states as her as named daughter of Edward and Elizabeth, and on her marriage cert it states Edward as Bottlemaker and something under which I cannot read. (Its more like Freeseland?) and Eliz Glen. Deceased. It was witnessed by Thos. Hendrie and Margaret Glen (which would be cousin ?)
The two of them give the address as 3 Trafalgar St. Hellensfield ?, Leith. It seems that they were married at that address after bans were called. As that is the address given on both sections. She was 19 yrs and he 23 yrs...
I doubt that any of this will help but...But maybe ???
robbiej.

JAP1
15-07-2009, 10:51 AM
Hi robbiej,

I should have twigged HENDRIE - a much more Scots name!

I'll look into the info you have provided but, like you, I guess it won't help - unfortunately!!

But I'll keep my fingers and toes crossed. :)

All the best,

JAP

lynnelay
15-07-2009, 1:20 PM
I don't suppose it's your Liddel, but a billy Liddel used to play for Liverpool years ago and belonged to the Liverpool Scottish Society. He had twin children
Lynne