What can I 'assume' from these wills?

[Jane_Adams]

I've got the wills of my 4xgreat grandmother and her brother.

His will was proved 9th July 1828 and left (from what I can decipher) most of the money to his sister.

Her will was proved on 22nd May 1835. She is described as 'wife of Thomas'. She leaves everything to her 3 children, but there is no mention of Thomas.

I'm trying to work out what happened to Thomas, when he died, etc.

If she is described as 'wife of' do you think that means he was still alive at the time she made her will? I know her will was definitely made after the death of her brother as his will is referenced and he is described as 'late brother' and 'deceased'.

Or can I, as usual, assume nothing?!

[Neil Wilson]

A dig around the parish registers would assist in finding when Thomas died. 'Wife of' makes it sound like the Will was written before Thomas died, but he could have died before the brother and that he never updated his Will.
Does this makes sense?

[Jane_Adams]

A dig around the parish registers would assist in finding when Thomas died. 'Wife of' makes it sound like the Will was written before Thomas died, but he could have died before the brother and that he never updated his Will.
Does this makes sense?

Yep, makes sense. It does only say 'wife of' on her will, i.e. the later of the two wills.

I've been searching for his death and not found anything as yet, but need to make a visit to the local archives for the area.

I know on certificates you can take some of the information with a pinch of salt, but just wondered if wills tended to be more accurate.

[Geoffers]

Her will was proved on 22nd May 1835. She is described as 'wife of Thomas'. She leaves everything to her 3 children, but there is no mention of Thomas.

I'm trying to work out what happened to Thomas, when he died, etc.


Who were the executors?

How old were Thomas and his wife in 1835?

[Jane_Adams]

Who were the executors?

How old were Thomas and his wife in 1835?

Right. The people involved here are William Bentley (the brother), Keziah Estwick (the sister) and Thomas Estwick (the husband).

I know when Keziah was born, which makes her 57 in 1835. I am assuming Thomas was around the same age but I've yet to track down his birth.

Re executors, on Keziah's will it is someone (or a company?) by the name of Brown Collison of Fleet Street (not a name I have come across in the family). For the brother, it is Keziah and someone else whose name I can't quite make out. It could be another Estwick.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/jane_clem/WilliamBentleywill.jpg


ETA: Just doing a quick Google for the name Brown Collison throws up a link to insurance records (I think) on the National Archives website, for a Brown Collison from Hitchin. As the Estwicks and Bentleys were from that area I assume that's where the connection lies.

[Geoffers]

I know when Keziah was born, which makes her 57 in 1835. I am assuming Thomas was around the same age but I've yet to track down his birth.

I was wondering if his age might be such that he could have been expected to pop his clogs between the will being written and probate being granted.


Re executors, on Keziah's will it is someone (or a company?) by the name of Brown Collison

Acting as an executor or executrix is a personal duty and as such I would expect to see a named individual rather than a company.


For the brother, it is Keziah and someone else whose name I can't quite make out. It could be another Estwick.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/jane_clem/WilliamBentleywill.jpg


"I appoint my said sister Keziah ESTWICK and the said Samuel LOMAX executrix and executor of this my will..........."


Just doing a quick Google for the name Brown Collison throws up a link to insurance records (I think) on the National Archives website, for a Brown Collison from Hitchin.

Access to Archives (now part of TNA's site) - returns some hits for Brown Collison relating to the Sun Fire Insurance (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/results.aspx?tab=2&Page=1&QueryText=brown+collison) I note that 'Brown Collison' is of a property called 'New England, near Hitchin' - the will you posted refers to "my sister Keziah ESTWICK housekeeper to Mr George COLLISON of New England near Hitchin".

[Peter Goodey]

Acting as an executor or executrix is a personal duty and as such I would expect to see a named individual rather than a company.

This is certainly the commonest situation but I wouldn't have said it was unknown for a firm of solicitors to be named as executors. I think banks offer a similar service.

[Geoffers]

This is certainly the commonest situation but I wouldn't have said it was unknown for a firm of solicitors to be named as executors. I think banks offer a similar service.

Very true and a good point - Although the references in Guildhall Library indexed on A2A don't make it clear in most instances - one entry:


[no title] MS 11936/446/823625 6 December 1808
These documents are held at Guildhall Library (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/archon/searches/locresult_details.asp?LR=76)
Contents:
Insured: Brown Collison 22 Great Ormond Street gent

hints at one individual of the name. Though this may not be the same person (or company) as mentioned at New England, near Hitchin

On reflection I should perhaps have added that in all the cases that immediately spring to mind where a solicitor or bank acts as executor, the occupation is included after the name.

Perhaps the best advice to Jane is to keep an open mind at the moment as to whether this relates to an individual or company.


Edit - looking at the list again, there seems to be further evidence that in this case, the name does relate to an individual:

MS 11936/518/1098195 21 October 1829
These documents are held at Guildhall Library
Contents:
Insured: Brown Collison,New England, Hitchin, Herts, esq

[Jane_Adams]

Thanks for your replies.

I am inclined to think that Brown Collison was a person rather than a company. I found a birth for someone of that name in Hitchin, and also a marriage to an Eliza Portlock (name that doesn't mean anything either). There is also a death on FreeBMD of a Brown Collison in Hitchin in 1850.

I had missed the fact that it states that Keziah was housekeeper to George Collison. According to the IGI, Brown seems to have had a brother called George, so perhaps that is the connection.

[Jane_Adams]

The other thing I'm not sure about (I've not had a chance to completely transcribe the wills yet), but I'm guessing that William Bentley had money given that he was living at Berkeley Square. I was looking on the Times Archive last night for that address and found an MP living their in the 1840s and onwards.

Certainly Keziah's son, William (my 3xgreat grandfather) had money and from his will owned properties in Hitchin and also ran a tent manufacturing business so thought this might have come down the line (Keziah's will leaves money to her children).

[Geoffers]

Just as you have found one will on TNA's documents online - there may of course be others - perhaps of William's dad, maybe some interesting COLLISONs or ESTWICKs. You might be able to identify possible matches by combining use of the GRO death index, the IGI, census returns and the FFHS National Burial Index - for example this will (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=1519&queryType=1&resultcount=16) may show a connection between George and Brown COLLISON - well it's something to do while the tea brews.

[Jane_Adams]

Ooh, thanks for that. Hadn't considered looking for his will!

I think I need to sit down and have a good bash at transcribing these wills. The one for Keziah's son, William is about 3 or 4 pages long and my eyes nearly fell out trying to work it all out (only got about half way so far!).

[Geoffers]

If you get stuck transcribing the will(s), just post the link provided by TNA (it's valid for 56 days) on the forums and we'll give it a go for you.

[Jane_Adams]

Well, if anyone is desperately bored and/or wants a challenge, here is the link. The will is about 3.5 pages long :o

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/download.asp?T=1448939&S=I/08/01402816N&E=jane.adams@gmail.com

[Geoffers]

It goes on a bit as all trustees wills do............

I Brown COLLISON Esquire of New
England within the County of Herts and of (Gild?)ford Street, Russell Sqare
within the county of Middlesex and also of Fleet Street in the City of London by
some or all of which designations I am described in the books of the Bank of
England do hereby revoke all wills codicils and other testamentary dispositions
by me at any time herebefore made and do declare this to be my last will and
testament . I appoint mu sons Frederick William Portlock COLLISON and George
Brown COLLISON to be executors of this my will. I give and bequeath unto my
dear wife Eliza COLLISON my leasehold house and premises which I now
occupy in Guildford Street aforesaid and also all my pictures, prints, books plate
linen, china, wine, liquors, stores for housekeeping, household goods and furniture
and all other chattels and effects whatsoever except money and securities for
money which at the time of my decease shall be in about or belonging to
my house in Gildford Street aforesaid, but upon express condition that
my said wife shall pay the rents and taxes in respect of the said premises
from the Quarter Day next succeeding my decease in exoneration of my
estate thereupon also I give and bequeath unto my said son Frederick
William Portlock COLLISON all my pictures, prints, books, plate, linen, china

continued........

[Geoffers]

Part 2......

wines, liquors, stores for housekeeping, horses, carriages, farming stock, chattels
and effects whatsoever except money and securities belonging to my house at New
(end of page 1)

England aforesaid and to the lands and premises in my occupation there
I give and bequeath unto each of my five children videlicet Mary Ann
MILES the wife of Reverend Charles Popham MILES, Fredrick William
Portlock COLLISON, Henrietta Eliza GREEN the wife of the Reverend Charles GREEN
Ellen MILES the wife of Captain Frederick MILES and George Brown COLLISON the
sum of One Hundred Pounds Three Pounds Five Shillings per rent annuities to
be transferred into their respective names immediately after my decease. I
give and bequeath unto the said Frederick William Portlock COLLISON and
George Brown COLLISON their executors and administrators all my reduced (….?)
per rent annuities, long annuities, India Bonds, money lent on bonds from the
City of London and all my monies and other securities for money and also all
The Residue of My Goods chattels credits and Personal Estates not
hereinbefore otherwise disposed of of or to which I now am or at my death
shall be possessed or entitled either at Law or in equity or of which I have or
at the time of my death shall have power to dispose by will except what
may otherwise dispose of by any codicil to this my will, upon trust that they

[Geoffers]

Part 3........

the said Frederick William Portlock COLLISON and George Brown COLLISON or the
survivor of them or the executors or administrators of such survivor shall
and do as soon as conveniently may be after my death, sold and converted into
money, my long annuities and either call in sell and convery into money
such other parts of my said personal estate as shall not consist of money or
shall not be then invested in or upon any of the parliamentary stocks or put
in funds of Great Britain or at interest upon Government or real securities in
England or Wales or at their or his discretion continue the same on such
investments as the same shall consist of at the time of my decease and
shall and do by and out of the ready money of which I may be possessed (if
the same shall be sufficient) and if the same shall not be sufficient then
by and out of the same monies and the money to be procured by the sale
of a sufficient portion of my other personal estate pay all my just debts and
funeral and testamentary expences and such fines and fees as shall be neces-
-sary to procure the admission on my decease of my said sons or either of them
to the copyhold parts of my states hereinafter devised to them and shall and
so lay out and invest the surplus of such monies which shall remain after
such payments as aforesaid in or upon any of the parliamentary stocks or
public funds of Great Britain or at interest upon real securities in England
or Wales and as well with respect to the said stocks, funds and other securities

[Geoffers]

Part 4.....

which the surplus of such monies shall be so laid out and invested as last
aforesaid as with respect to any of the securities except long annuities of or to
which I may be possessed be entitled at my death shall and so from time to
time when and as they or he shall think fit so to do alter vary and transfer
the said stocks funds and securities into or for any other stocks funds or securities of
the same or a like nature at their or his discretion and I declare and direct
that the said Frederick William Portlock COLLISON and George Brown COLLISON
and the survivor of them and the executors or administrators of such sur-
-vivor shall pay the interest dividends and annual proceeds of the stocks, funds
And securities in or upon which my residuary personal estate shall from
Time to time be laid out and invested unto my said wife Eliza COLLISON dur-
-ing her life and from and after her death do and shall stand possessed of
And interested in the said stocks, funds and securities In trust for my children
The said Mary Ann MILES, Henrietta Eliza GREEN, Ellen MILES and George
Brown COLLISON to be divided amongst them as tenants in common and
the issue of such of them as shall die in my lifetime leaving issue living
at my death, such issue to take between them the share which his or her
parent would have taken if living, but if any or either of my said last
mentioned children shall die in my lifetime without issue who shall be
living at my death then as to as well the share originally limited

[Geoffers]

Part 5........

under the preceding trusts as the shares eventually limited under this
(…..tory?) trust to any and every child so (…..?) In trust for the others and
other of my said four children and the issue of such of them as shall be then
dead leaving issue and if more than one in equal shares the issue of a
deceased child to take between them the share which their parent would
have taken if living. I give and devise all the freehold and copyhold mes-
-suages lands and hereditaments and premises of or to which I am or at my death
Shall be seized or entitled at Law or in equity or of which I have or at my
Death shall have power to dispose by will (except what I may otherwise dis-
-pose of by any codicil to this my will) unto and to the (…?) of the said Frederick
William Portlock COLLISON and George Brown COLLISON their heirs and assigns
Upon trust that they said Frederick William Portlock COLLISON and George
Brown COLLISON and the survivor of them his heirs or assigns shall and do
during the lifetime of my said wife by and out of the rents and profits of the
said freehold and copyhold hereditaments raise and pay unto my said wife
such yearly or other sum or sums of money as shall from time to time
with the interest dividends and annual proceeds of my residuary personal
estate hereinbefore made payable to my said wife for her life make up to
a then yearly income of Five Hundred Pounds the said sum or sums to be
payable to my said wife on equal half yearly payments and subject as afore-
-said shall and do by sale or mortgage of the said freehold and copyhold mes-
-suages lands and hereditaments and premises or such part or parts thereof

[Geoffers]

Part 6.......

As they or he may think proper raise and pay to each of my children Mary
Ann MILES, Henrietta Eliza GREEN, Ellen MILES and George Brown COLLISON
The sum of One Thousand Pounds and I direct that the said Mary Ann MILES,
Henrietta Eliza GREEN, Ellen MILEs and George Brown COLLISON shall be res-
-pectively entitled to interest at the rate of Four Pounds per rent per annum
on the said several sums of One Thousand Pounds hereinbefore directed to be
raised and paid to them respectively from the day of my decease to the time
or respective times when the said sums shall respectively shall be actually paid
and that such interest shall be raised and paid by and our of the rents and
profits of the said freehold and copyhold hereditaments but nevertheless
and I expressly direct that no part of such interst shall be rasied and
paid until the yearly or other sum of sums of money hereinbefore directed
to be paid to my said wife out of the rents and profits of my said estates
shall be fully raised and paid to her as and subject as aforesaid I direct that the said
Frederick William Portlock COLLISON and Georeg Brown COLLISON and the survi-
-vor of them and the heirs and assigns of such survivor shall stand (…..?)
of the said freehold and copyhold messuages land hereditaments and premises
or the unsold part thereof In trust for the said Frederick William Portlock COLLISON

[Geoffers]

Part 7.......

his heirs and assigns for ever provided always and I hereby declare that it shall
be lawful for the said Frederick William Portlock COLLISON and George Brown
COLLISON and the survivor of them and the heirs and assigns of such survivor
to demise or lease all or such parts of the said messuages lands hereditaments
and premises hereinbefore devised to them as are freehold and all such parts
thereof as are copyhold with the Licence of the Lord of the Manor of which
the same are holden if such licence shall be necessary for any term or num-
-ber of years and in all respects such manner as the said Frederick William
Portlock COLLISON his heirs and assigns shall think fit and also to accept surre(nder?)
of any lease or leases and grant any new lease or leases thereof or of any
part thereof in all respects as the said Frederick William Portlock COLLISON, his
heirs or assigns shall think fit and I hereby expressly direct my said son
George Brown COLLISON to join and concur in executing and such lease
or leases as aforesaid as the said Frederick William Portlock COLLISON his heirs
and assigns shall desire to be granted of the said hereditaments and promi-
-ses and I also declare and direct that the receipt or receipts in writing of the
Said Frederick William Portlock COLLISON and George Brown COLLISON and the

[Geoffers]

Part 8............

survivor of them and the heirs and assigns of such survivor for any sum
or sums of money which he or they shall or may receive or (…..?)
any of the trusts in this my will contained shall be sufficient discharge
and sufficient discharges for the monies therein respectively acknowledged to
be received and that the purchaser or purchasers mortgagee or mortgagees or
other the person or persons whom such receipt or recipts shall be given his
her of their heirs or executors administrators or assigns shall not afterwards be
answerable or accountable for any loss misapplication or nonapplication
or be obliged to see to the application of the moneys therein respectively
acknowledged to be received provided always and I hereby declare my will to be
that if the said Frederick William Portlock COLLISON and George Brown COLLISON
shall either of them or any trustee or trustees appointed as hereinafter provided
shall either in my lifetime or after my decease die or go to reside beyond the
seas or desire to be discharged or refuse disclaim or become incapable to act in
the execution of the trusts of this my will then and in every such case it
shall be lawful for the surviving or continuing trustees or trustee for the

[Geoffers]

Part 9.........

time being (and for this purpose, refusing or retiring trustees shall if willing to
act in the execution of this power or considered as continuing trustees or for the
acting executors or administrators of the last surviving or continuing trustee
to appoint a new trustee or new trustees in the place of the trustee or trustees
disclaiming or becoming incapable to act as aforesaid and that upon every
and such appointment all the herditaments and premises monies sticks funds
and securities then vested in the trustees or trustee for the time being or
in the heirs executors or administrators of the last surviving or continuing
trustee shall be so conveyed assigned and transferred respectively that the same
may be vested in the surviving or continuing trustee jointly with such new
trustee or such new trustee solely as the case may require and that every
trustee so appointed as aforesaid may either before or after the said trust estates
and premises shall have been so vested as aforesaid act or assist in the execu-
-tion of the trusts and powers of this my will as fully and effectually to all
intents and purposes as if I had hereby constituted him a trustee provided
always and I declare my will to be that the trustees or trustee for the time
being of this my will shall be respectively chargeable only for such monies
as they shall respectively actually receive notwithstanding their signing a

[Geoffers]

Part the last.........

(.ole?) for their own acts receipts neglects and deficits respectively and not
For those of each other nor for any banker, broker or other person with whom
Any trust monies ort securities may be deposited nor for the insufficiency or de-
-ficiency of any stocks, funds or securities in or upon which any part of the
Trust premises may from time to time be laid out or invested nor for any
Other loss in respect of any part of the said trust premises unless the same
Shall happen through their own wilful default respectively and also that
It shall be lawful for the said trustees or trustee for the time being to re-
-imburse themselves or himself or pay and discharge out of the trust premise
all the expences incurred in or about the execution of the trusts or powers of
contained in eight sheets of paper set my hand this thirty first day of March
in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred and Forty Nine.
Brown COLLISON – signed and published by the said Brown COLLISON
the testator as and for his last will and testament in the presence of us
present at the same time who at his request and in his presence and in the
presence of each other have subscribed our names as witnesses
Jn G BLAKE – Adrian DAINLAY, 14 Essex St, Strand

The will was proved 16th Spet 1850 on oath of the executors the Reverend Frederick William Portlock COLLISON, Clerk and George Brown COLLISON, esquire

[Jane_Adams]

Crikey!!!

Wow, thank you for doing that! I started it off earlier but had to stop and planned to pick it up again this evening!

I did also manage to find Brown & Eliza on the 1841 census (it had been mistranscribed as Colliton), he is shown as a 'bank clerk'. Seems like he did pretty well for a bank clerk!!

Thanks again, I really appreciate it!

(This site is fab, I've had so much help from here - I've been seeking out threads where I can potentially help in order to try and redress the balance a bit!)