PARKHURST PRISON

[katerina]

HI,
CAN ANY BRIGHT SPARK HELP ME IN GETTING INFORMATION ON MY GRANDAD WHO WAS SENT TO PARKHURST PRISON ON THE ISLE OF WHITE ABOUT 1924 TO 1930. I HAVE WRITEN SO MANY TIMES TO PARKHURST, BUT NO ONE HAS BOTHERED TO REPLY. GRANDAD WAS JOSEPH JACKSON FROM DOCKHEAD BERMONDSEY, AND MUM SAYS HE WAS SENT THERE FOR NEARLY KILLING A POLICEMAN. BUT I DONT KNOW IF THATS THE TRUTH, HE GOT IN WITH A TURKISH CHAP BUT WHAT THEY DONE STILL REMAINS A MYSTERY. MUM (WHO IS NOW 91) STILL REMEMBERS VISITING HIM WHEN SHE WAS ONLY 8. JO WAS A BERMONDSEY BOXER. I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW TO FIND ANY RECORDS ABOUT THAT TIME THAT WILL THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE WHOLE THING. HELP FROM ANYONE IS MOST WELCOME
KATE

[Peter Goodey]

On the assumption that he was probably tried at the Old Bailey, have a read of this -

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=172

[Lesley Robertson]

HI,
CAN ANY BRIGHT SPARK HELP ME IN GETTING INFORMATION ON MY GRANDAD WHO WAS SENT TO PARKHURST PRISON ON THE ISLE OF WHITE ABOUT 1924 TO 1930. I HAVE WRITEN SO MANY TIMES TO PARKHURST, BUT NO ONE HAS BOTHERED TO REPLY. GRANDAD WAS JOSEPH JACKSON FROM DOCKHEAD BERMONDSEY, AND MUM SAYS HE WAS SENT THERE FOR NEARLY KILLING A POLICEMAN. BUT I DONT KNOW IF THATS THE TRUTH, HE GOT IN WITH A TURKISH CHAP BUT WHAT THEY DONE STILL REMAINS A MYSTERY. MUM (WHO IS NOW 91) STILL REMEMBERS VISITING HIM WHEN SHE WAS ONLY 8. JO WAS A BERMONDSEY BOXER. I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW TO FIND ANY RECORDS ABOUT THAT TIME THAT WILL THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE WHOLE THING. HELP FROM ANYONE IS MOST WELCOME
KATE

If you know roughly where he was living before ge got sent down, have a go at finding newspaper reports of the time. If he did attack a policeman, it almost certainly would have been mentioned.

BTW, many people see messages entirly in caps as "shouting", and don't like it.

Lesley

[katerina]

MANY THANKS LESLEY, WILL GIVE IT A GO, I HAVE TRIED ALL THE BERMONDSEY PAPER OF ABOUT THAT TIME, BUT NOTHING TURNED UP, SO I DONT THINK IT COULD HAVE BEEN WHAT MUM SAID, BUT SOMETHING IS THERE AND SHE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A GUN .I NEVER KNEW JO JACKSON (GRANDAD0 AND HAVE NEVER SEEN A PHOTO, I JUST WONDERED IF PARKHURST HAD MUG SHOTS OF THEIR CONVICTS, AGAIN IT SEEMS A CLOSED SHOP.
ONCE AGAIN MANY THAX FOR YOUR REPLY, I WILL LOOK INTO IT.
KINDEST REGARDS
KATE

[katerina]

Got the message about Caps and taken it in as you can see.

[katerina]

Thanx Peter for the info i will go through it and see where it leads, lovely to get a reply, will keep you posted .............kate

[Geoffers]

Some offences of the Central Criminal Court and Assizes, also of the Metropolitan Police and the Director of Public Prosecutions are individually indexed on The National Archives' (TNA) web-site. It may be worth a search (it's free and a good excuse to have a cuppa).

Using The Catalogue (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp)
In the word or phrase field enter a surname
In the year range - restrict this to a fairly wide range (he may have been sent down earlier than you think), so try 1916-1936
You can leave the department or series code blank. if you do, you will get a list of numbers of records within each class at TNA.

You need to click on the numbers on the right of the screen where records are shown within the following codes (the codes are shown on the left of the screen under 'catalogue reference'):

ASSI (Assizes)
CRIM (Central Criminal Court)
MEPO (Metropolitan Police)
DPP (Director of Public Prosecutions)
PCOM (Prison Commission)

You might also try HO (Home Office) in case this was a capital offence for which the death penatly was commuted - though you may have to wade through some naturalization records to find possible case of interest.

IF you find an entry of interest, you can request a copy (for which there is a fee).

[Peter Goodey]

Thanx Peter for the info i will go through it and see where it leads, lovely to get a reply, will keep you posted .............kate

You're welcome. I was working on the assumption that he was living in Bermondsey and that the offence was not so trivial that it was tried at a lower court than the Central Criminal Court.

The Calendars of Indictments in CRIM 5 at the National Archives are reasonably easy to use although you would have to go and search in person.

In the meantime, Geoffers has provided details of some searches you can do online.

[JulieW]

HI,
CAN ANY BRIGHT SPARK HELP ME IN GETTING INFORMATION ON MY GRANDAD WHO WAS SENT TO PARKHURST PRISON ON THE ISLE OF WHITE ABOUT 1924 TO 1930. I HAVE WRITEN SO MANY TIMES TO PARKHURST, BUT NO ONE HAS BOTHERED TO REPLY. GRANDAD WAS JOSEPH JACKSON FROM DOCKHEAD BERMONDSEY, AND MUM SAYS HE WAS SENT THERE FOR NEARLY KILLING A POLICEMAN. BUT I DONT KNOW IF THATS THE TRUTH, HE GOT IN WITH A TURKISH CHAP BUT WHAT THEY DONE STILL REMAINS A MYSTERY. MUM (WHO IS NOW 91) STILL REMEMBERS VISITING HIM WHEN SHE WAS ONLY 8. JO WAS A BERMONDSEY BOXER. I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW TO FIND ANY RECORDS ABOUT THAT TIME THAT WILL THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE WHOLE THING. HELP FROM ANYONE IS MOST WELCOME
KATE

Hi there. Parkhurst Prison has a museum which can be visited at certain times. There is a wealth of information there. I visited a few years ago and found it quite interesting. As far as I know it is still open. My Grandad was a prison officer there. By the way it is Isle of Wight - not WHITE. Good luck with the search|wave| JulieW

[katerina]

Hi Julie,
Thanx for correcting the spelling of White to Wight, i knew at the time of writing that it didnt look right. Julie tell me can anyone just go to the museum, or do you have to book an appointment. i cant understand why i have never got a reply from the prison. Do you think they would still have records for that period in time 1920- 1930, how long ago was your Grandad an officer there.
My Granadad would turn in his grave his he knew his grandaughter is a police constable in the Surrey area, and her husband is in the Met. police on the gun squad, strange world we live in, its come full circle. Thanx Ju for your help, Kate

[katerina]

Wow Peter i asked for a bright spark, and got a genius......... it sounds very complicated as i'm still into learning about how to use computers, so it might take me some time to get there.......but get there i will. Its been one of those things that was always spoken about in the family, but no one ever bothered to find out. It surely cant be that difficult to find these records, after all its less than a hundred years, and some of these records go back forever. I dont care what he done, good or bad he was still my Grandad and like i said i never even got to see a photo of him,although mum says he was known throughout Bermondsey Dockhead and greatly loved by the people there. Again for some reason or other, he was always up at the Tower Bridge Magistrates court, mostly for being drunk. Do you think its possible that he might has been sent down from there.
Thankyou once again for your help. Its spurred me on and i am now fired up even more.
Kindest wishes Kate

[Geoffers]

can anyone just go to the museum, or do you have to book an appointment.

Using a search engine, I inetered 'Parkhurst Prison museum' which came up with this link (http://www.wightonline.co.uk/parkhurst-heritage/index.html). Click on visiting the prison and you'll get some contact details who may be able to assist.

Do you think they would still have records for that period in time 1920- 1930

It depends on precisely when your chap was in the clink, but it may be that (some of) their records are still closed.

Tower Bridge Magistrates court, mostly for being drunk. Do you think its possible that he might has been sent down from there.

Tower Bridge MC to Parkhurst for being drunk? - no. He may possibly have been had up for drunk and disorderly so often that he was committed to the Assize for being a 'Rogue and a Vagabond' - but even from there the sentence would not have been more than (12?) months and then most likely to have been served in a local nick.

[katerina]

Hi Geoffers,
Thanx for the help, as i said in an answer to someone else, i'm very new to this computer lark, but seem to spend most of my time doing the family tree. My Grandad was also up at Tower Bridge Magistrates In Bermondsey. Do you think they might have records from that period in time 1920-1930, he might have even been sent down from there. and how do i get hold of these records if they exist.
Sorry to say he hated the police so much as they always seemed to be feeling his collar, i think mostly for being drunk, but saying that he must have done something quite wrong to end up doing 7 years at Parkhurst.
If only he knew that his gr grandaughter has ended up in the Surrey Police Constabulary, and her husband is a gun officer on the streets of the Metropolitan Police in London, i know he would turn in his grave,
Bless you for your help,
Kate

[katerina]

Back again Geoff,
Just got you other letter, and hope i havent sent you the same letter twice, sorry if i have. Going back to Jospeh, he must have done something bad then to end up at Parkhurst. Mum sad he had a terrible temper when drunk (who hasnt) but had a heart of gold when it came to helping people out, she says he was taken all round the streets of Bermondsey when he died, but i couldnt find anything about him in the Local papers for that time which was 1939, so i cant say if this really happened. There was also a photo of him with his fists up and in his boxing gear. I got in touch with a man who researches pre war boxers, and he found 5 refrences to him, but no photo........how sad. What ever he done its still park of my history, as i go back in time and see all the names that i come across that make up the family, and the hardship they had.. i feel proud to say i am a part of it.
By for now
Kate

[Geoffers]

My Grandad was also up at Tower Bridge Magistrates In Bermondsey. Do you think they might have records from that period in time 1920-1930

The Court Registers appear to have been deposited with the London Metropolitan Archives (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=074-tow&cid=0&kw=tower%20bridge%20magistrates#0)

The court would have dealt with relatively minor matters and also committals to the Assizes for more serious offences (I would guess that the offence for which he was sent down to Parkhurst would have been subject to such a committal)

Sorry to say he hated the police so much as they always seemed to be feeling his collar

I got used to this point of view before I retired from the job.

but saying that he must have done something quite wrong to end up doing 7 years at Parkhurst.

A seven year stretch would be the result of something much more than drunkeness, or even committal under the old Vagrancy Act (dealing with idle and Disorderly persons, Rogue and Vaganbonds and Incorrigible Rogues).

[bumblebee]

Just thought I would mention this incident, but it is in 1922,

Newspaper, October 1922.

Joseph Jackson, aged 34, Dealer, and several other men, including a Fagioli, (more of an Italian name than Turkish though) were charged with possessing revolvers with intent to endanger life. Jackson along with three others was also charged with shooting at a Detective Sergeant.

Jackson and another man were found guilty of possessing firearms and shooting at the detective with intent to do grievious bodily harm, they were acquitted of shooting with attempt to murder.

This all happened on Grays Inn Road, so I don't know if that is in the right area. It seems to have all kicked off as an argument between rival racing gangs in a pub in Grays Inn road.

It says that the sentencing would be carried out at a later date.

I thought there were too many similarities not to mention it.

Bumblebee


Addition - there is also a court of criminal appeal Rex v Joseph Jackson in December 1922

[katerina]

Bumblebee, i hope you got my personal message i sent you this morning. I cant tell you just how i feel at this moment its truely wonderful to get such information coming back. I am quite sure this is my Grandad, as there are so many things to connect him with this case. Please get back to me, i need to ask you so many questions. You truely are an
angel love Kate

[bumblebee]

Kate

I have answered your pm and email, pleased to be of help.

Bumblebee

[JulieW]

Hi Julie,
Thanx for correcting the spelling of White to Wight, i knew at the time of writing that it didnt look right. Julie tell me can anyone just go to the museum, or do you have to book an appointment. i cant understand why i have never got a reply from the prison. Do you think they would still have records for that period in time 1920- 1930, how long ago was your Grandad an officer there.
My Granadad would turn in his grave his he knew his grandaughter is a police constable in the Surrey area, and her husband is in the Met. police on the gun squad, strange world we live in, its come full circle. Thanx Ju for your help, Kate

Hi, I believe you have to make an appointment. I went with a group, so someone else organised it.
My Grandad was an officer there, I believe around the 1930's, as that is when he came to the Isle of Wight. He actually wrote a book about the prison service, but unfortunately I have mislaid it. I'm sure your grandad would be proud of you. Best wishes. JulieW

[katerina]

Thankyou for that Julie, I would have just loved to know him, and i'm sure most families must have skeletons in the cupboard. What he done dosnt worry me, its all in the past, and makes up the family history. Thanx for writing back and for all your help
love Kate