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IreneH
14-09-2008, 9:32 PM
I'm looking for information on Mungo Douglas and family.

I've found him in Census 1851 with wife Jean and kids William 9, Adam 7, Hugh 5 and Jean(should be Jane) 1mth. 1861 with wife Jane (should be Jean) kids William 19, Jane 10, Janet 7, Robert 3 and Mungo 1.

Mungo and family lift Scotland for NZ in 1863. He and Wife Jean arried here with kids William, Hugh, Elizabeth, Janet, Jane, Annie, Archibald and John.

I need to know what happened to Adam, Robert and Mungo. Died perhaps? And where and when were Elizabeth, Annie, Archibald and John born.
Most of the other kids seem to have been born in Dreghorn Ayrshire

Anyone got access to Scottish BMDs or how can I find them online without it costing me big bikkies:)

Irene

JustJean
14-09-2008, 10:28 PM
Hi Irene

You can't find images of the Scottish BMD's and OPRS's online anywhere but SP and that will cost. You can however order in a film to your FHC and view them that way.....or even order photocopies (not sure how this works outside the US though) from Salt Lake City for a small fee as long as the record is an extract in the IGI. A parent search on familysearch.com turns up the births you're looking for. Just enter father's name Mungo Douglas, mother's name Jean Arthur, and then only enter British Isles and leave all other boxes blank. The one in 1855 might be worthwhile getting though as that is the year of more data!

Best wishes
Jean

JustJean
14-09-2008, 11:05 PM
Wait just a minute here!!!! You've got the wrong family!!! I started trying to cross match names and yes there are an awful lot of coincidences that match but there just weren't enough deaths and births to fit the bill. The wee Mungo you've found born abt 1859 died in Dreghorn in 1872 and his father Mungo Douglas is informant. Unless they sailed back from downunder I don't thing they could be in two places at once.

Best wishes
Jean

JustJean
14-09-2008, 11:25 PM
what are the ages of the kids on the immigration records you have? Perhaps we can find another family for you!

Here is the Mungo Douglas family you had found in the 1871 census still in Dreghorn at the address of "House 72".

members of the household:
Jane Douglas age 20, dau
Janet Douglas age 53, wife
Mary Douglas age 15, dau
Mungo Douglas age 56, head
Mungo Douglas age 4, (says son but might be grandson)
Robert Douglas age 13, son

IreneH
15-09-2008, 12:20 AM
The Mungo Douglas I'm looking at was born 1815 or there abouts.
I have no brith date for the kids at arrived here. But the list is the right fimily Janet and Archibald married into the same family. They all meet on the ship.

I can only give a guess to the age of one of the girls - 1839 give or take a few years. She was around 25yrs when she married. Archibald was b. 1852????

Irene

JustJean
15-09-2008, 1:44 AM
Hi Irene

Ok....found the right family now!! Try this one out in 1861....they were not from Dreghorn but from New Cumnock!!

Registration district: New Cumnock
Civil Parish: New Cumnock
County: Ayrshire
Address: Farden

Members of the household:
Anne Douglas age 11, dau., b. New Cumnock
Archibald Douglas age 9, son, b. New Cumnock
Elizabeth Douglas age 15, dau. b. New CUmnock
Hugh Douglas age 17, son, b. New Cumnock
Jane Douglas age 13, dau, b. New Cumnock
Janet Douglas age 23, dau, b. Stair, Ayrshire
John Douglas age 51, wife (clearly mistranscibed!!!!) b. Craigie, Ayrshire
Mary Douglas age 25, dau, b. Stair, Ayrshire
Mungo Douglas age 56, b. Sorn, Ayrshire, Occupation: Farmer Of 148 Acres
William Douglas age 21, son , b. Stair, Ayrshire
James Richmond age 17, servant Occupation: Ploughman

JustJean
15-09-2008, 1:58 AM
I had an extra credit so here are the index results for the OPR births from SP

11/01/1850 DOUGLAS ANNE MUNGO DOUGLAS/JEAN GALT FR176 F New Cumnock /AYR 608/ 0020 0106

26/01/1852 DOUGLAS ARCHIBALD MUNGO DOUGLAS/JEAN GALT FR177 M New Cumnock /AYR 608/ 0020 0109

04/11/1845 DOUGLAS ELISABETH MUNGO DOUGLAS/JEAN GALT FR171 F New Cumnock /AYR 608/ 0020 0097

05/11/1843 DOUGLAS HUGH MUNGO OR JOHN DOUGLAS JANE GALT FR169 M New Cumnock /AYR 608/ 0020 0093

06/02/1838 DOUGLAS JANET MUNGO DOUGLAS/JEAN GALT FR221 F Stair /AYR 614/ 0020 0101

11/11/1847 DOUGLAS JEAN MUNGO DOUGLAS/JEAN GALT FR173 F New Cumnock /AYR 608/ 0020 0101

20/11/1833 DOUGLAS JOHN MUNGO DOUGLAS/JEAN GALT FR207 M Stair /AYR 614/ 0020 0074

28/10/1835 DOUGLAS MARY MUNGO DOUGLAS/JEAN GALT FR214 F Stair /AYR 614/ 0020 0088

08/03/1840 DOUGLAS WILLIAM MUNGO DOUGLAS/JEAN GALT FR227 M Stair /AYR 614/ 0020 0114

Best wishes
Jean

IreneH
15-09-2008, 2:01 AM
Hi Jean,

You are a genius. |bowdown| I had at the back of my mind that it didn't fit right but I just couldn't work out why.

If I'd used my aging brain a bit better I would have worked out Janet and Archibald ages sooner :o

That is the family that I am after |woohoo|

Many thanks

Irene

JustJean
15-09-2008, 2:05 AM
I'm happy if you're happy |jumphappy

Deano
17-09-2008, 8:35 PM
Hello Irene,

In 1851. census, New Cumnock. Address, Fardin.

Douglass Mungo, Head, M. M. age 48 years, Farmer, 180 Acres, Born Sorn, Ayr,
Douglass Jane, Wife, M. F. age 41 years, born Craigie, Ayr,
Douglass John, son, U. M. age 17 years, Ploughman, born, Stair, Ayr,
Douglass Mary, daur, U. F. age 15 years, Born Stair, Ayr,
Douglass Janet, daur, F. age 13 years, born Stair, Ayr,
Douglass William, son, M. age 11 years, scholar, born Stair, Ayr,
Douglass James, son, M. age 9 years, scholar, born New Cumnock, Ayr,
Douglass Hugh, son, M. age 7 years, scholar, born New Cumnock, Ayr,
Douglass Elizabeth, daur, F. age 5 years, born New Cumnock, Ayr,
Douglass Jane, daur, F. age 3 year, born New Cumnock, Ayr,
Douglass Anne, daur, F. age 1 year, born New Cumnock, Ayr,
Mcdougall Grace, Servant, F. age 15 years, House Servant, born Glencairn, Dumfriesshire.

This is your family i would not worry about the surname having two s' at the end this could quite easily be a transcription error, ie on the reading of the census.

You will also notice there is a son James, aged 9 years, who was not with the family on the 1861 census provided for you earlier.

Regards,
Jonn.

Deano
17-09-2008, 9:01 PM
Hello Irene,

The 1841, census, New Cumnock, Address, Farden.

Douglas Mungo, M. Age 35 years, Farmer, born Ayrshire,
Douglas Jane, F. age 30 years, born Ayrshire,
Douglas John, M. age 7 years, born Ayrshire,
Douglas Mary, F. age 5 years, born Ayrshire,
Douglas Janet, F. age 3 years, born Ayrshire,
Douglas Wm. M. age 1 year, born Ayrshire,
McConnel William, M. age 15 years, Male Servant, born Ayrshire,
Carson John, M. age 11 years, Male Servant, born Ayrshire,
Murdoch Helen, F. age 15 years, Female Servant, born Ayrshire,
Cuthbert Mary, F. age 15 years, Female Servant, born Ayrshire.

I reckon that Mungo Douglas's, parents were John Douglas, and Janet Brown, and that his parents were farming people also.

The only way to prove this, you say that Mungo, and his Family, went abroad, you would have to find his death in the country he went to and hope this certificate mentions the name of his parents.

There is a submitted birth for the year 1805, for a Mungo Douglas, to the parents i Mentioned this birth is quite near the census ages for Mungo, that have been provided.

Regards,
Jonn.

IreneH
17-09-2008, 9:29 PM
Deno,

Thank you. :)

James must have died or married in Scotland as he didn't come out to NZ with the rest of the family. Judging by the age in the census he would have been about 21 in 1863 when the rest of the family come out here.

I had found Mungo's mum and dad and what I think are his siblings. Though it is a bit confusing as there seems to be some missing kids. Or the other possibility a 2nd family with same names for the parents.:confused:

Mungo's death date is the next thing to find so I can get his death cert. I not sure where he ended up in NZ but do know that two of his kids, Archibald and Janet, end up in Poverty Bay.

Irene

Deano
18-09-2008, 9:27 AM
Hello Irene,

There were two John Douglas, and Janet Brown's, one was earlier than your couple, also the other couple were in Dunoon, Argyll.

Your John and Janet Brown, were married 29/Jan/1802, Craigie, by Kilmarnock, Ayr.

They had seven children that i can find births for.

Isabella Douglas, 13/Dec/1802. Sorn, Ayr,
Mungo Douglas, 11/Feb/1805, Sorn, Ayr,
William Douglas, 25/May/1807, Sorn, Ayr,
Elizabeth Douglas, 25/Feb/1816, Stair, Ayr,
Hugh Douglas, 15/July/1818, Stair, Ayr.
Archibald Douglas, 10/Sep/1821. Stair, Ayr,
Ann Douglas, 11/July/1825, Stair, Ayr.

They also had a son John Douglas, born about, 1811. Stair, Ayr.

Regards,
Jonn.

JustJean
18-09-2008, 12:10 PM
Nice find Jonn. James birth was one of those in the list with no mum's name!

22/01/1842 DOUGLAS JAMES MUNGO DOUGLAS/ M New Cumnock /AYR 608/ 0020 0087

Best wishes
Jean

IreneH
18-09-2008, 9:02 PM
Jean and Deano, Thank you.

John bridges the gap nicely with Janet and John kids.

James must have married in Scotland or died either before they came to NZ or maybe on the voyage out. He certainly never arrived with them.

Will have to go back and look at the deaths on that voyage and see if he was ever on the ship with them.

It seems a little odd that the whole family bar one came out.

I'll see what I can find.

Many many thanks you two|cheers|
Irene

duchessmac
02-03-2009, 1:00 PM
Irene,
2XGreat Grandfather was William Douglas, 25/May/1807, Sorn, Ayr,
are you still researching Mungo and Jean Galt? I have quite a bit of information on them as well I have collected over the years. What are you looking for?
Carolyn

IreneH
02-03-2009, 6:40 PM
Hello Carolyn,

Basically anything I can can find on them as I have very little. Only what i've been able to find on census and at the archives here in NZ which hasn't been much at all.
So far I have not been able to make contact with any of the descendants, though two of Mungo's children married into my family.
In fact most of what I have on them is what you will have seem in the posting on this forum.

Would love anything you are willing to share. If there is anything that I have that you might like I happy to share.

Irene

duchessmac
09-03-2009, 9:29 PM
Irene sorry I took so long-
not sure how much you want-
John Douglas born abt 1772 Kirkconnel died 01 Feb 1853 Cardston Farm Stair
Janet Brown born 22 apr 1777 Troon Aryshire-(pretty sure I found the actual parish register)- died 29 Nov 1876 Stair Ayrshire- daughter of William Brown and Isabella Stirrat
both John and Janet are buried in Stair church yard Ayrshire
Mungo Douglas- parish record" Mungo Douglass lawful son of John Douglass farmer South Logan and Janet Brown his spouse was born 1st. and baptized 11 Feb 1805"
Married Jean Galt 07 Dec 1832 in Stair she was the daughter of John Galt and Mary Knox born 13 feb 1810 Craige Ayrshire.
this is the death information that was passed to me a couple of years ago
Mungo died 17 Aug 1886 Mangere Auckland buried Mangere Presbytrain Church Cemetery
Jean died 08 March 1881 same place and buried same.
All I have on the children are that:
Janet married Mathew Hall 23 Feb 1865 in Mangere
Archibald married Faith Hall but I have no date
Hugh married Jane Dickey 11 June 1873 in Mangere-
I don't have anything on the other children other than birth dates-
as far as James born in 1842- he seems to disappear between 1851 and 1861
may have died as he is not on the passenger list
I have marriage and death dates of the brothers and sisters of Mungo if you want.
If you want more information could you post your email address it would be much easier that way.
regards Carolyn

duchessmac
09-03-2009, 9:44 PM
Irene, if you have any other ships list for New Zealand could you check to see if you have James (1842), John (1840) and McCartney Boyd (1843) all Douglas brothers. McCartney Boyd could be listed as just MB Douglas -he would have had a wife with him Elizabeth (1843)- don't know whether the other brothers were married or not, can't find any marriages for them.
I think they all went together and more than likely 1863,1864- no later than March of 1865 as MB and Elizabeth's first child was born March of '65.
According to their father's will James and John are still in New Zealand in 1878- by that time McCartney is back in Scotland.
I know it is a pretty big time frame so only if you have some lists or could point me the direction to find some on-line.
thanks Carolyn