Unable to find death entry in index

[Genevieve]

Can anyone suggest where I can go next with this?

I have been trying to find the death entry in the BMD index (using 1837online and also FreeBMD) for Charles William BARNES without success.

This I know (in so far as we can ever 'know' anything):

He married Alice RODWAY in Watford in the March Q of 1874
They had two sons Charles BARNES born circa 1875 and Herbert BARNES born circa 1877
In the 1881 census Alice BARNES (aged 29) is the head of the household and is described as a widow
In the March Q of 1882 Alice married Henry PHEABY
On Herbert's marriage cert from 1902 he is stated as deceased and his occupation is given as Gardener

I have searched for the death entry of Charles William BARNES between Mar Q 1874 and Jun Q 1881 and not found him.

There are no Charles William BARNES of a possible age. There are quite a few plain Charles BARNES (too many to order all ther certs plus I still might not know it was him as I don't yet know his age at death) but none in an area that would make me think it is him.

Can't find him in the 1871 census I hoped I could find an age and place of birth that way - same problem no suitable Charles William BARNES and too many plain CHARLES.

All suggestions gratefully received...

[Peter Goodey]

What age was shown on the marriage certificate and what was his father's name?

When exactly was Herbert born?

Getting the certificates and the answers to these questions will help you to track down the death.

[Genevieve]

What age was shown on the marriage certificate and what was his father's name?

I don't have Charles William BARNES's marriage certificate yet. I've ordered it but not yet received


When exactly was Herbert born?

I don't know. I have been unable to trace his birth certificate. He died in 1934 aged 58 which would mean born around 1876. 1901 census gives his age as 24 which equates to around 1877. 1881 census gives his age as 4 which again equates to around 1877.


Getting the certificates and the answers to these questions will help you to track down the death.

I am assuming (and I appreciate that this is an assumption) that Charles William BARNES died some time between fathering Herbert and the 1881 census when Alice BARNES says she is a widow.

I've searched back to 1874 to allow for error in Herbert's birth date and forward to second quarter of 1881.

I know Alice BARNES remarried in the first quarter of 1882 and. She had her first child her second husband in November 1882.

[Genevieve]

Mythology - many thanks.

How do you know the stuff about what registration district Edgeware is in? Is there somewhere you can look things like this up?

I agree it looks like 129 and would be happy to order the cert on that basis.

However, what information is it going to give me that I don't already have bearing in mind the ultimate object of the exercise is to find his father's (Charles William BARNES) birth?

I am trying to find his father's date of death and age at death so that I can narrow down the search for his birth. If the 'Hendon Herbert' is mine and Charles William BARNES is his father then he couldn't have died any earlier than I have already searched which is back to 1874.

[Peter Goodey]

If there's only one Herbert Barnes birth in that quarter in Hendon, the reference, even with a dodgy page number, is unambiguous and she should get it in any case (that's based on my experience - it isn't a guaranteed part of the service!).

I'd also suggest that if reference checking is used, it should NOT be based on Father=Charles. Mother=Alice should be safer. But then that's just me on the lookout for a juicy story ;)

[Genevieve]

Peter - I see what you are getting at!

Won't help me find Charles William BARNES's birth though but then he might not be the man I should be looking for...

In a similar vein - I don't know exactly when in the first Q of 1882 Alice married her second husband but her first child with him was certainly at least a 'honeymoon baby'.

[Geoffers]

I have been trying to find the death entry in the BMD index (using 1837online and also FreeBMD) for Charles William BARNES without success.
He married Alice RODWAY in Watford in the March Q of 1874
In the 1881 census Alice BARNES (aged 29) is the head of the household and is described as a widow
All suggestions gratefully received...
Hello
As well as everything already mentioned in replies:

1) Have you tried looking under BARNS?

2) Have you searched the index to wills and admons? - it is often easier to pick out those in which you are interested as tehre is more detail included in the index.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[Genevieve]

What age was shown on the marriage certificate and what was his father's name?.

I've just received Charles William BARNES's marriage cert - his age is given as 25 (28th March 1874) and his father's name was George BARNES

[Genevieve]

Hello
As well as everything already mentioned in replies:

1) Have you tried looking under BARNS?

No - good idea will have a look.


2) Have you searched the index to wills and admons? - it is often easier to pick out those in which you are interested as tehre is more detail included in the index.

No - can you tell me how I do that? I haven't ventured into the area of wills yet. I know it must be a good source as you recommended this when I was looking into my JACOB ancestors.

[Mark]

Can't see any likely candidates on FreeBMD either ... at least searching for anyone who's Charles William. But I do notice that Dec 1877 has far fewer listed than the other quarters.

As for surname variations, I'd certainly look for BARNS, BAIRNS, even BURNS maybe

Mark

[Genevieve]

Glad I haven't missed anyone.

I've just been looking on FreeBMD for his birth now I have received his marriage cert giving his age as 25 in March 1874 but still no luck...well it took me years to get past his son and find him so I might be in for a long search...

[Genevieve]

Ah - just found a potential candidate in Sept 1848 born in New Forest.

[Geoffers]

No - can you tell me how I do that? I haven't ventured into the area of wills yet. I know it must be a good source as you recommended this when I was looking into my JACOB ancestors.
Wills are an excellent source of information. For those where someone died from 1858 onwards, there is a single index. This can be seen at the Family Records Centre (FRC) in London - it has also been copied onto microfilm and can be used at many Local Studies' Libraries around the country - 'phone your nearest to see if they do have it and if you need to book a reader.

The wills index is arranged so that there is one series of volumes per year. Within each year, names are arranged alphabetically. If you find an entry, note down all of the detail and you can apply for a copy of the will via the Probate Registry in York.

An entry in the index will usually record:
Name and address of deceased, when and where died, often an occupation. When and where probate/admon was granted and to whom (i.e., their name, often an address/relationship to deceased, sometimes an occupation), value of estate - all that just from the index!

Geoffers

[Genevieve]

Thanks Mythology that's really useful - my pay-as-you-go subscription to Anc.com has just expired so I'd not been able to consult the censuses since I found out Charles's age.

(I'm now debating with myself whether to do another PAYG or go for the 'full monty'.)

It's interesting that you say Charles is living with a George BARNES. Charles's father was named George so the entry you have found would fit nicely - the elder son being named after the father.

[Genevieve]

An entry in the index will usually record:
Name and address of deceased, when and where died, often an occupation. When and where probate/admon was granted and to whom (i.e., their name, often an address/relationship to deceased, sometimes an occupation), value of estate - all that just from the index!

Geoffers

Sounds excellent. I'll give it a go - Thanks

[Genevieve]

Yes, sounds like a 'hit' - thanks for all your help.

GEN