View Full Version : James Kinder - missing in 1881?
28-08-2008, 1:49 PM
I could do with a bit of help to find James Kinder (my gg grandfather) in the 1881 census.
I have him in 51/61/71, with wife (wives actually) and family, consistently born c1830 and occupation Fulling Miller. His place of birth is given as
1851 Cartworth, Yorks
1861 Cartworth, Yorks
1871 Wooldale, Yorks (family transcribed as PINDER)
In 1881 his wife and family are still in Wooldale. Hannah is listed as wife, with "(husband away)" next to her entry. This has been crossed out. (ref RG11/4311 fol 33 p1). (By the way, can anyone work out what Herbert did with his carding machine? :D )
In 1891, Hannah and the children are still in Wooldale. She is still listed as wife. (ref RG12/3558 fol 48 p1)
I think I have found James in 1891, he has correct age and gives Holmfirth as his place of birth which is the same area. He is a mill operative, lodging at a common lodging house in Upperthong (next to Cartworth). (ref RG12/3557 fol 45 p25).
But I can't see him in 1881 :confused: Has anyone got any suggestions? |help|
Hope this is not too convoluted :) Thanks in advance
28-08-2008, 2:46 PM
This would be your James Kinder in 1881, but his age has wandered by 5 years.
RG11; Piece: 4371; Folio: 104; Page: 27
28-08-2008, 2:56 PM
Yes, I did wonder about him, but wasn't sure because his age on all the other censuses had been so consistent. But unless anyone else finds a better candidate, I'll go with him :D
I wonder whether he was just lodging during the week for work, or if he and Hannah had separated - guess we'll never know :confused:
Thanks for looking
28-08-2008, 3:17 PM
can anyone work out what Herbert did with his carding machine?
Layer on to carding machine in woollen cloth....er something.
Definition (I understand most but not all of this ;):
card feeder, card filler (wool); carder feeder (wool), engine feeder, feedbox minder (Scottish), feeder(wool), layer-on, ligger-on, scribble filler, scribbler feeder, scribbling feeder, server (wool), woollen feeder;
puts blended wool into automatic hopper feed, or, more rarely, spreads it on lattice feed of carding engine set, which combines processes of scribbling (coarse carding), carding (opening out strands, arranging them parallel. and extracting foreign matter) and condensing (lap into sliver).
28-08-2008, 3:27 PM
Thank you Peter. I knew carding was preparing the wool for spinning, just couldn't work out what he was actually doing! Originally done by hand with teasels or equivalent, and later with paddles with lots of little hooks on them (a bit like velcro), it gets rid of rubbish like straw and seeds from the fleece, and lines all the fibres up the same way. Then you roll the wool into a sort of soft scroll so it can be spun.
Obviously the process had been mechanised, and I presume laps and slivers are the rolls of prepared wool that go to the spinning machines.
I looked at this for you and found the family quite interesting. As you say James is not with his wife in 1881/1891 but is lodging quite close. Evidence seems to suggest his wife had kicked him out!
What I did find and think should be investigated further is that the 1851 census shows an Elizabeth (Betty) Kinder, a widow with several children. By 1861 this Betty, still a widow, has a 6 year old son named Albert, obviously an illegitimate child. Betty Kinder dies in 1876 and Albert is living with his two older unmarried sisters but interestingly by 1891 Albert is lodging in the next house to your James Kinder. A possible line to follow is that James fathered Albert while still married to Harriet. Betty was a probable relative of James, the 1841 census shows her to be the wife of Henry James Kinder. (Henry James was the son of Joseph and Maria Kinder, baptised at a Wesleyan church, Holmfirth 4 July 1814 & recorded dead in 1850) Betty appears to be 15 years senior to your James.
Now to the parents of James Kinder (your G. G. Grandfather) I think the following information ties in nicely and points to the birthplaces given by James.
HO107/1277 Folio 21 Page 13
Underbank, Kirkburton Yorks
Jonathan Kinder 40 Cloth Miller
(All born in county)
HO107/2292 Folio 91 Page 6
18 Smithyplace, Netherthong, Yorks
Harriot Kinder Head Wid 47 Fuller Miller born Honley
Sarah Ann dau 23 Houser Keeper born Cartworth
Andrew son 16 Miller born Cartworth
Hobson son 7 born Wooldale
Hannah dau 3 born Wooldale
Death - Jonathan Kinder Jan/Mar 1849 Huddersfield Vol 22 Page 261
Either of these marriage certificates will confirm James's father:-
James Kinder & Sarah Ann Worsley Jul/Sept 1850 Huddersfield vol 22 page 305
James Kinder & Hannah Hirst Jan/Mar 1860 Huddersfield vol 9a page 297
Hope all this helps,
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