Sydney Ernest Franklin, Paymaster General for RNVR in WW1

[RosalindElsie]

Sydney Ernest Franklin was my great uncle on my father's side of the family only I have come across some facts that mention that he was in the Royal Navy Volunteers Reserve's Paymaster General in the First World War.

I would like to learn more about this part of his WW1 war service as I've drawn a blank so far.

His parents were Ernest Louis Franklin and Hon. Henrietta Montagu, daughter of Sir Samuel Montagu Bt (1st Lord Swaythling).

Can anyone help me please.

RosalindElsie

[Fordy]

Sydney Ernest Franklin was my great uncle on my father's side of the family only I have come across some facts that mention that he was in the Royal Navy Volunteers Reserve's Paymaster General in the First World War.

I would like to learn more about this part of his WW1 war service as I've drawn a blank so far.

His parents were Ernest Louis Franklin and Hon. Henrietta Montagu, daughter of Sir Samuel Montagu Bt (1st Lord Swaythling).

Can anyone help me please.

RosalindElsie

Here you go...

Navy List 1917 & 1918
R.N.R.—TEMP. PAYM. SUB-LIEUTENANTS
Sidney Ernest Franklin (Act Paym. Lieut.)
Date of Seniority 29 Jan 1915
Where serving: Eglantine
AUXILIARY SMALL CRAFT
"EGLANTINE"
Manning Port, Portsmouth 1917 & 1918


Navy List 1916
TEMPORARY ASSISTANT PAYMASTER R.N.R.
COMMISSIONED MERCHANT VESSEL AS H.M. SHIP.
"MANXMAN"

Navy List 1915
ASSISTANT PAYMASTER R.N.R.
EUROPA. (Po.) Cruiser.
11,000 Tons.

[Fordy]

Sydney Ernest Franklin was my great uncle on my father's side of the family only I have come across some facts that mention that he was in the Royal Navy Volunteers Reserve's Paymaster General in the First World War.

I would like to learn more about this part of his WW1 war service as I've drawn a blank so far.

His parents were Ernest Louis Franklin and Hon. Henrietta Montagu, daughter of Sir Samuel Montagu Bt (1st Lord Swaythling).

Can anyone help me please.

RosalindElsie

Might be of interest....


1928 Kelly's Gentry:

Franklin, Ernest Louis, 2 s. of Ellis A.
Franklin, of 35 Porchester terr. W. (d. 1909);
b. 1859; m. 1885, hon. Henrietta, eld. dau.
of 1 baron Swaythling: memb. of banking firm
of Samuel Montagu & Co., J.P. (1911) co.London :
50 Porchester terr. W.2 (T.N..Paddington 0212);
Reform, Burlington Fine Arts and Savile clubs;
Glenalla, Letterkenny, co. Donegal.

[RosalindElsie]

Thank you and it's fascinating to read this but where did you find this information.
I mean from which websites?

[bumblebee]

Lovely obituary for him in the Times but it only says that he was in the Royal Navy during WW1, no further details to add to above.

Bumblebee

[RosalindElsie]

This is one of the few places that I've got some information about Sydney Ernest Franklin's life from and nothing really about his WW1 service in the RNV as the Paymaster General.
(Also he was mentioned in despatches) not sure how many times
or if it was because he was injured.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~macculloch/p147.htm#i8073

[Fordy]

Thank you and it's fascinating to read this but where did you find this information.
I mean from which websites?

From our CD's - available at Parish Chest.

:)

Your Old Books & Maps (http://www.parishchest.com/shop/index.php?cmd=listlinkeditems&cat=D1800&breadcrumb=Armed+Forces:Your+Old+Books+%26+Maps)

[RosalindElsie]

Fordy I have to research so many people for my extensive family trees and if I buy anything and everything I know that I'd be broke.


Like the facts that I have to research all of the Franklin, Samuels, Waleys, Jessels, Sassoons and Castellos, Copisarows also many others. It's nicely time consuming.

Thanks

[daggers]

I think there is a great difference between a 'Paymaster General', at the top of a tree, and a 'Temp. Paymaster Sub-Lieutenant RNVR'. The latter was a very junior officer, whose role was to deal with much of the clerical work aboard ship and often was one not qualified for more combatant work. However, if he was serving in a very small vessel, he might have a wider role.
A large ship such as battle cruiser or battleship would have a 'Paymaster Commander', a fairly senior rank, with a staff of lower officers, petty officers and ratings known as writers.
Hope this helps.
Daggers

[RosalindElsie]

Daggers
That is very helpful and I am can only share the information that I have to hand and
Ernest Louis Franklin's Navy service details are vague that's up to know.

[daggers]

Looking through the contributions so far, it looks as though your man was Royal Naval Reserve, and not RNVR - the difference being that most RNR personnel were serving with the Mercantile Marine - merchant ships - pre-war, while RNVR were more like the army's Territorials.
You might be able to find more but I have had problems seeking RNR/merchant records, so am not the best to advise.
I hope this is not a red herring.
Daggers

[RosalindElsie]

Daggers yes and i've got a friend, who had mentioned to me that I can ask the
Royal Navy in Portsmouth or Greenwich for Archived Records and I might do that.

My great uncle served between 1914-1918. I don't know about his DoD yet.

Sorry for the confusion. but I've always thought that the merchant Navy were another part of the actual Royal Navy oops if I am wrong.:)

[daggers]

No blushing, please! The Mercantile Marine, aka Merchant Marine, was not a branch of the armed services, but there was a crossover as merchant [civilian] sailors and officers were encouraged to join the Royal Naval Reserve in peacetime and train for possible service with the Royal Navy.
The MM was renamed by King George V as Merchant Navy but the old names continued for a long time afterwards.
Daggers

[RosalindElsie]

Daggers that's interesting about the Mercantile (Merchant) Navy not being
part of the actual forces.

Were the MM involved in the Boer War or just later on? I am interested

so I guess that they were the equivalent of the TA? (Territorial Army).

How can I find out something like his records apart from the National Archives in Kew? http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

[daggers]

The name Mercantile Marine was the name given to cover all British merchant [ie civilian] shipping, cargo ships, passenger liners, fishing boats etc. Most were owned by companies which emloyed the crew members.
daggers

[RosalindElsie]

daggers
I think that you mean that the mercantile Navy were a bit like the Dunkirk's small ships expedition in the second world war.

Of course I may be wrong.

It might have been good for moral though