James Bradford. Sarah Bradford. How related? Help please?

[benny1982]

Hi

My 4xgreat grandparents George & Sarah Coombs had their first son Matthew George Coombs in Holborn, London in 1812, 2 more who died in infancy and my great, great, great grandfather William Thomas Coombs born in Sep 1828 in Soho, London.

George was last seen and heard of in March 1830 when William was baptised. He vanished off the face of the earth it seems. Later on it appears that Sarah was known as Sarah Bradford. Matthew Coombs wed in 1835 and 1845. Sarah Bradford was a witness to both weddings, but in July 1835, another witness was a James Bradford.

In the 1841 census Sarah was in Carburton Street, Marylebone, London, a singlewoman, laundress with a 12 year old son William, who would have been the same age and forename as William Coombs. Sarah registered the deaths of Matthew Coombs eldest son who died in infancy and his first wifes death. I think that she was the same Sarah who was once wed to George Coombs.

In the 1841 census, there was a James Bradford living just round the corner from Sarah. He was a labourer and of similar age to Sarah and both not born in London. James had two children Henry and Frances with him. James was a baker at some stage. The mother was Amey.

James Bradford wed Amey in 1825 and he signed his name. The James Bradford who witnessed Matthew Coombs wedding with Sarah put an X, th mark of. Trouble is, I cannot find any other likely James Bradfords in London that would be another candidate for the one who witnessed Matthew Coombs wedding in 1835. I cannot find any James Bradford deaths in the West London area from 1837 to 1841.

James who wed Amey was born in 1792 in Effingham, Surrey, the son of Henry and Susannah Bradford. He didnt have a sister Sarah though. Henry had two known brothers who were having children from 1798 onwards. I am in a bit of a quandry now as I did think the James Bradford living round the corner from Sarah in 1841 was a relation.

I cannot find a marriage for a Sarah Coombs to a Mr Bradford at all on IGI, Pallots and I have even checked at London record offices for unindexed churches. I am sure from the evidence that Sarah Bradford is the one who wed George Coombs but am stuck with this James Bradford thing. Could it be two different James Bradfords or were they another relation besides siblings?

|banghead|

Ben

[ChristineR]

In the 1841 census Sarah was in Carburton Street, Marylebone, London, a singlewoman, laundress with a 12 year old son William, who would have been the same age and forename as William Coombs. Sarah registered the deaths of Matthew Coombs eldest son who died in infancy and his first wifes death. I think that she was the same Sarah who was once wed to George Coombs.

Have you found this woman in a later census? as the 1841 census does not show marital status or relationships between people in the same household, she could actually have a husband who is elsewhere on census night.

[Marie C..]

Ben,
Is that yours on IGI?
There you have Sarah Bradford marrying George Coombs and poss. death for George 1830-1835. And you have George's father born Dorset 1765! How do you know that?

Back to Holbourn. Several Bradfords born Holborn and several Commbs/e. Seems no marriages on igi so where did you find marriage? Was it on the parish registers for Holborn and if so what was sarah's father's name. And when was Sarah born?I cannot find Sarah's birth or George Coombs' birth on the list.
Do you not think that a Sarah Bradford married a George Coombs and then reverted to maiden name and that the James living nearby was her brother? When was James born?
Was his wife Martha?
M

[benny1982]

Hi MarieC

James Bradford was born in Effingham in Surrey in 1792. He died in 1846. A GenesReunited member has put his place of birth on her tree. There was a James Bradford born in Effingham in 1792 but he didnt have a sister Sarah. James had 2 male uncles, and they didnt have a daughter Sarah born in 1790ish. James lived just round the corner from Sarah in 1841 in Marylebone.

I contacted this GenesReunited but she hasnt got back to me. How did she find out his birthplace if he died before the 1851 census? Sarah died just before the 1851 census.

That tree is mine on IGI but I submitted it a few years ago and some is just guesswork. Apart from being known as Coombs, Sarah Bradford's details and child match that of the Sarah who was once wed to George Coombs.

Could it be that Sarah was a friend of James or a secret lover and took his surname even though he was still married?

A George Coombs married a Sarah Davy in 1810 in Axminster, Devon. My George and Sarah had the 1st child in 1812 in London. George was a coachman.

Ben

[Marie C..]

Ben,
If you take someone's else's research as Gospel then sometimes it is flawed. I think you have to check and recheck everything. If this person who says such and such has actually looked at parish registers or got copies of marraige entries, death entries etc then well and good.
How old is the james Bradford on the 1841?
Why do you think the George Coombs who marries Sarah Day in 1810 in Devon might be yours. Why do you think it's the same couple?
I will have a look on 1841 .

[benny1982]

Hi Marie

James Bradford was aged 49 in 1841 so born in about 1792 which ties in with the 1792 birth in Effingham in Surrey. If he died in 1846, how did another person find this birthplace out? He was living just round the corner from her in 1841. Sarah was aged 50. Both said they were not born in the county. She was the same age group as James Bradford. James and his wife had their last child in 1837 then his wife vanished.

Ben

[Marie C..]

Still looking Ben,
Can't find a death for a James Bradford 1846. There is one for 1849 at St. Olave and one in Epsom Sep 1850. No ages given.
Looking at all Surrey.
M

[benny1982]

Hi MarieC

Sorry I should have stated., He died in Marylebone in London in 1846. It should be under Mar Quarter. My apologies.

Here are the census details for James & Sarah Bradford

11 Carburton Street, Marylebone

Sarah Bradford, aged 45, (rounded down) washing, not born in County
William Bradford, aged 12, born in County (I think he is really William Coombs)

24 Upper Charlton Street, Marylebone, just round the corner from Sarah

James Bradford, aged 49, (born 1792) Labourer, not born in county.
Henry Bradford, aged 13, born in County
Frances Bradford aged 7 born in County.

They are so close in age, and a James Bradford witnesses Matthew Coombs wedding in 1835 with Sarah.

Could this GenesReunited member have just been guessing at James place of origin with the most likely baptism and the James above is a different James Bradford to the one born in Effingham in 1792?

Or could Sarah Bradford have taken his name even though he was still a married man?

Going round in circles.

Ben

[Marie C..]

Thanks for that Ben!
Been busy so not had chance to see.
Don't know what to think. Have to go with what you know or have established. You know for a fact that Will. Thomas Coombs born Sept 1828 in Soho London, was your 3xgreat grandfather . If George was last seen ? in 1831 at son's baptism then he may well have died before the 1841 and Sarah had then married a James Bradford and NOT the one who was wed to Amey and could sign his name . There must have been several James Bradfords around he may have been a cousin! The James who wed Amey had a sister Mary Ann bap.1804 and a brother richard 1801.
Back later.
M

[benny1982]

Hi Marie

The James born in Effingham had two male uncles John and Robert and none had a daughter Sarah born in 1790/1791 ish. I wonder if the James living round the corner from her was not the one who witnessed the wedding in 1835. He was also a baker as when his children were baptised, they said that he was a baker. Would a baker have to be literate?

I cannot yet locate a wedding for Sarah Coombs to a Bradford.

I am wondering if there was another James Bradford in the area that may fit?

Sarah Bradford witnessed Matthew Coombs 1835 and 1845 wedding. She also registered his sons and first wifes death. Matthew and William Coombs mum was called Sarah born in about 1791. Sarah Bradford was born around then and had a son with matching details to William Coombs. There are about 8 "coincidences" there for her not to be Sarah who was once wed to George Coombs. I am certain that she is the mother of William and Matthew Coombs and Bradford may have been a maiden or remarried name.

Ben

[Marie C..]

Ben,
Have you got William Coombs(Sarah's son) in 1851? Was he in the same area, what was he doing? what was his birthplace given as? and where, in 1851 was Matthew, the younger brother?
This is a real puzzle isn't it as so many James Bradfords.
M
ps Wish I ahd A....y Can't manage without it.

[benny1982]

Hi

In the 1851 census, William had moved down to Westminster. He was a lodger at No 14 Dacre Street, St Margaret Westminster in 1851, aged 22, a printer, which was his lifelong occupation. Sarah Bradford was sent to St Marylebone Workhouse in December 1848 due to illness. William Coombs was 20 by then. Sarah died in February 1851. Which is more likely, did William leave home when his mum died or before when she was hospitalised?

If he was a lodger in 1851, he may have just moved to Dacre Street.

In 1851, his brother Matthew Coombs was at No 8 Ann Street in Clerkenwell, aged 39, a music printer. They both went into the same profession. In 1841 by the way, Matthew was in South Islington near the Angel.

I reckon the James living round the corner from Sarah is just a coincidence. If he signed his name in 1825 when he wed, why would he just put his mark in 1835 if he witnessed a marriage?

I have mot proven any relationship between James and Sarah so could he be two different James?

Ben