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lorraineosborne
14-08-2008, 9:42 AM
I am struggling to find the birth/baptism of my g.g. grandmother, Emma Johnson. She was born in Liverpool c 1825, and was married to James Challinor at St Phillip's Church, Liverpool on Nov 23rd 1847. On the marriage certificate, her address was given as Clarence Street and her father's name was John Johnson, a Carter - DEC'D.

I've looked on the 1841 census but the entries aren't conclusive. I don't know whether Clarence Street would be her home address or where she was working/living at the time.

I would be very grateful for any help.

Lorraine Osborne|help|

cirstybewick
14-08-2008, 12:13 PM
hi if you go to merseyside genealogy they may be able to help with this one

they have helped me as my gr grandad came from liverpool
regards
cirsty

lorraineosborne
14-08-2008, 12:24 PM
hi if you go to merseyside genealogy they may be able to help with this one

they have helped me as my gr grandad came from liverpool
regards
cirsty

Thanks - I'll give it a try
Lorraine

suzieq08
15-06-2009, 6:36 PM
Hi Lorraine

I am happy to look for you re: your ancestor - I shall get back to you as soon as I find something to report.

Kind regards

Suzie

suzieq08
15-06-2009, 7:01 PM
Hi! Lorraine

I have just tried the usual genealogy sites that I have personal access to - however, I would require further infomation from you (if you have any please) in order to make sure I have firstly, the correct Emma Johnson plus, secondly the correct Emma Challinor for you.

Please could you let me know if 'Emma' remained in Liverpool until she passed away or if she moved elsewhere in the country? Secondly, do you know what her mum's name is and/or the names of her siblings/children etc.?

I shall look forward to hearing from you with any further information that you may have to share with me re: your ancestor/s.

Kind regards

Suzie

Raffaele
15-06-2009, 8:32 PM
Emma Johnson in Liverpool is quite daunting.

I have at least three possible baptisms, but none with a John Johnson father.
The problem is that John may not actually be John but Fred known as John.

There are heaps of choices for a death of John Johnson in Liverpool.

What were the names of the witnesses to the 1847 marriage. That might just give a clue so that a family can be identified in the 1841 census.

lorraineosborne
16-06-2009, 9:22 AM
Hello Suzie

Many thanks for your reply. Emma and James Challinor married in 1847, Liverpool but shortly after they must have moved to Peterbrough and then Boston - James was an Engine Driver. Emma actually died in Lincoln. I am just looking for my Challinor records to give you further details. Will send as soon as I find them.

Lorraine

Raffaele
16-06-2009, 10:18 AM
Liverpool was at the forefront of railways from the 1820's.


From 1825 to 1875 we went from 25 miles of railway to 160,000.

James as an engine driver was well placed to take advantage of his situation and this explains the families mobility.

Because Emma was born before 1837 and the need for registration it is only baptism records that are available. While there are records on the IGI we have no idea which parish she was baptised at but one clue is that the marriage is not on the IGI, neither can I find St Phillips, Liverpool on the Hugh Wallis site.

I think your best route is with Merseyside Genealogy as suggested by CirstyBewick

suzieq08
16-06-2009, 4:15 PM
Hi Lorriane

Many thanks for sharing the above piece of information with me - I shall go back to my 'shoe boxes' where I have saved possible matches for your re: Emma Johnson/ Challinor and I shall get back to you later this evening with possible matches for you to mull over!

Take care.

Suzie

suzieq08
16-06-2009, 5:04 PM
Hello Lorraine

I have re checked the information that I 'shoeboxed' re: Emma Challinor last night and I apologise if I am reconfirming information that you already have.

However, could you possibly confirm if the following information relates to your Emma please, in order for me to knwo that I am on the right track - many thanks.

In the 1861 England Census: James and Emma CHALLINER (aged 40 & 37 respectively) are living in Lincoln with their 6 children (3 boys and 3 girls)

In the 1871 England Census: Emma CHALLINER (aged 46) HEAD, lives in Lincoln with 3 of her children, James (18), Luke (10) and John (9)

In the 1881 England Census: Emma CHALLONER (aged 56) HEAD, Widowed, lives at 32 Ashtons Court, Lincoln and resides with her two sons Luke (21) and John (19)

I have all the relevant Source Citations if you require them Lorriane - please just let me know and I will be more than happy to scan the information across to you via the PM Service on the Forum.

I also noted that there is Death Index entry for an 'Emma CHALINOR' who died the 1st Quarter of 1883, aged 58, Lincoln - Vol. 7a pg. 325.

With reference to Raffaele's first Posting to you - I, too, found an Emma Johnson listed as having a father by the name of 'Fred' not John - may I ask are you aware of the name of Emma's mum or perhaps any of her siblings, in order to narrow the search for you re: the 1841 England Census search for Emma Johnson?

With regards to your original Posting where you state you are unsure of the reference to 'Clarence Street' and whether this is Emma's home address or her work address. In all of my ancestral research with regards to Marriage Certificates - I am informed that it was common practise to include the spouse's (female) home address - even for the respective male spouse, in order for the lady to be married in her home town and that is why sometimes you see a duplicate home address in both sections on the marriage Certificate. I hope this information may help you - personally I am unaware of a person's works address being entered on a Marriage Certificate!

Any further information you may have to kindly share with me would be most appreciated re: Emma Johnson. May I also ask are you aware if Emma went by an alternative first name whilst she was growing up, as this may help to decipher her in the 1841 Census more accurately for you?

I look forward to hearing from you re the enclosed.

Best wishes

Suzie

lorraineosborne
17-06-2009, 4:31 PM
Hello Suzie
First may I say a big thanks to you, for all your efforts. Yes, you have all the right census information and registration of death. And on the 1851 census, Emma was living at 117 Liquorpond Street, Boston with daughter Elizabeth, born in Peterborough, aged 10mths - ref H107/2099 p29, I think perhaps James could have been out working? James died between 61 and 71 census but I haven't been able to trace the right death. I will find the marriage certificate and send names of witnesses.
Lorraine

Hello Raffaele
Thanks to you too. I agree with your comments re the christenings at St Phillips. I did pay a visit to Liverpool Record Office and it was difficult to find anything.
Lorraine

lorraineosborne
17-06-2009, 5:57 PM
I now have the marriage certificate in front of me. The witnesses were John Hewitt and Elizabeth Hewitt (her mark) - I would think it possible that this could be Emma's married sister but couldn't find them on the census either. I have previously found 9 John Johnson's on the 1841 census - all Carters but 1 is nearest in age, living at Burscough Street, West Derby - none live at Clarence Street. Then again, he could have died before 1841!

Lorraine

lorraineosborne
03-07-2009, 9:17 PM
Has anyone been able to trace a John and Elizabeth Hewitt as on my g g grandparents's marriage certificate?

Lorraine

christanel
03-07-2009, 10:49 PM
1851 census HO107 piece 2192 folio 609 page 26
West Derby Liverpool
13 Croft Street
John Hewitt age 39 Engine Man born Lowton Lancashire
Elizabeth wife 40 born Sutton Cheshire
William son 15
Emma daughter 13
Sarah Ann 12
Elizabeth 4
Mary Ellen 2
All children born Liverpool

The only marriage I can find for a John Hewitt and an Elizabeth ? is March 1/4 1841 Liverpool vol 20 page 233.
But looking at the birth dates of the children William was born c 1836 so was Elizabeth John's second wife? Also there is a big gap between the birth of Sarah Ann and Elizabeth which is another reason for me thinking this may be John's second marriage.

All of the above is supposition based on names, places and John and James both working for the railways. It may be that the only connection between them is the workplace of both men.
Christina

lorraineosborne
04-07-2009, 12:23 AM
Thanks so much Christina,
I'll have a better look tomorrow.

Lorraine

lorraineosborne
04-07-2009, 10:15 AM
I've just looked on freebmd and the maiden name of Elizabeth married to John Hewitt 1841 was Rice, so as you suggest, it may be a work-related friendship. What a shame, I was hoping it was Emma's married sister which would have given something else to help track her down.
Any other suggestions are most welcome.


Lorraine