Eva Lizzie Mcmann nee Dobson

[genewizard]

Hi guys hope you can help this is a major brickwall I have had for a couple of years now and I desperatley want to knock it down so I can complete a branch of my tree. The brickwall involves my grt, grt Auntie Ivy, here's what I have
Eva Lizzie Dobson ( known as Ivy to the family) born 1893 in Hebburn to Joseph and Elizabeth Dobson (nee Wilkinson) on the 1901 census she is living with her widowed father Joseph at 7 Eea Street, Newburn, Lemmington and her siblings Florence Brooke, Margaret Ethel, and Roseanne.
On the 31/01/1914 at South Shields Registry office Eva marries Joseph Mcmann a Ship Rivitter from Hebburn who is 21 years old, Joseph is the son of john Mcmann born in Ireland and working as a shipyard labourer at the time of Joseph's marriage. Joseph's mother is called Mary and she was born in Tow low, Durham. I have a copy of Joseph's 1901 census and this shows that along with his parents he was living with his 8 siblings at 13 Prince Consort Rd, Hebburn.
What I am trying to find out is what happend to Eva after she married, my nanna mentioned that Eva moved to the Wirral/Liverpool/Birkenhead area, and that she used to come to the North East to visit around 1930+, I have been unable to trace a death for Eva, or children but I believe that her Husband Jospeh may have died during WW1 as I have found a listing for a Joseph Mcmann from the Durham light Infantry who was born in Hebburn and who was killed in action on the 28/08/1916 in France. But I haven't been able to find a 2nd marriage for Eva or anything else, could someone help as she seems to have just disappeared.
Joseph's siblings on the 1901 census were :-
Micheal 21
John James 20
Philip 19
Robert 15
Mary Ellen 12
William 6
Elizabeth 4
Bridget 2
|banghead||banghead||banghead||banghead||banghead| |banghead|

[bumblebee]

I don't know if this could be a possible son, with a misspelling of the name, John J McMahon, 1915 Q1 MMN Dobson, South Shields Durham, 10a 1959

Long winded but if there is no sign of a likely match in death or (re)marriage index, if you can find a child who married, that certificate may prove a to be a lead.

Bumblebee,

[bumblebee]

I have found this marriage so above might be nothing to do with it - although the first names are the same

Eva L McMahon 1919 Q4 Spouse, Edward Roberts, Birkenhead 8a 1199

Bumblebee

[bumblebee]

Lets hope this is not her son being killed in the second world war.

John MCMAHON, Gunner in Royal Artillery, (No.5124501) (does say initials J H though), Birthplace: Birkenhead, Residence: Birkenhead, Died: 8 February 1944, Burma - checking this death in the Overseas GRO Army index it is down as John H. so not the son.

Bumblebee

[Lenore]

Hello folks,

I don't know if this will help, because I never see people refer to death notices in newspapers as a source of information in English mailing lists or forums.

But, in Australia, when someone in the family dies - the mother, father, siblings - the death notices from the family will often give very handy clues as to names or places of family members.

EG, if mother Mary Brown dies, the death notice might read "Brown, Mary, loved mother of George, Alfred, Ethel (Mrs Bloggs, Melbourne), Alice (dec) and Wendy (Mrs Black, New Zealand.)"

Was this not a custom in England in the 20th century? If it was, I would recommend trawling through the papers after all the deaths in the family. If it wasn't the custom, I would be grateful if someone would let me know.

Best wishes,

Lenore

[genewizard]

Hi Bumblebee thanks for the info I'm going to order both certificates it can't hurt, I'm willing to pay for the certs just so if it's not them I can rule them out.

[genewizard]

Hi Lenore death notices are still common in the UK well at least I can say in the North east, I have been today to a local library trawling death notices for relatives, the problem I have with Eva is that she lived in the North west of England and I'm unable to travel there to find the notices plus I'm not sure what her surname was at death.

[bumblebee]

Hi Genewizard

Fingers crossed then and as you say you can rule them out if they are not relevant.

Bumblebee

[Lenore]

Hi Lenore death notices are still common in the UK well at least I can say in the North east, I have been today to a local library trawling death notices for relatives, the problem I have with Eva is that she lived in the North west of England and I'm unable to travel there to find the notices plus I'm not sure what her surname was at death.

Hi Genewizard,

I am suggesting the death notices as a way of finding out what her surname was - ie, look at the death notices for her parents, siblings, inlaws where she might get a mention in the notices. Also the anniversary of the death of the husband in WW1.

If you know what newspapers you want to look at, you could ask your reference librarian to find out where the nearest copies are located. Universities, for instance, often have collections of newspapers on microfilm.

Or, if you have a precise death date for someone, you could contact a regional library which has that newspaper and ask if they will look at the death notices for you. Libraries will often do quick, uncomplicated requests like that. That's what they are there for. I've had libraries in Sydney, Perth and England (I live in Melbourne) look up death notices for me when I've given a specific death date.

Best wishes,

Lenore

[genewizard]

Thank You so much Bumblebee the marriage certificate arrived today of Eva Lizzie Mcmahon and it is my Eva, it has her listed as a widow and her father as Joseph Dobson, so that has solved part of the brickwall n ow I need to wait and see if the birth you found is her son from her first marriage and then I can find her date of death and any children she may have found and also her 2nd husband Edward Roberts details. I don't know when the birth cert will arive I've been waiting nearly 3 weeks for a birth cert I requested, I ordered a mdeath cert at the same time and I've had that for about 10 days.|hug|

[bumblebee]

Good news, it just shows what variations there are in surname spellings, they don't make it easy do they.

Fingers crossed for the birth certificate.

Bumblebee

[genewizard]

Hi Bumblebee you were spot on again Eva did have a son to Joseph and his name was john Joseph Mcmahon the funny thing is was that there surname or was in Mcmann the marriage cert of joseph and Eva said Mcmann and Joseph's details on the cwg sites says mcmann, so I guess it's another mystery. But thank you again.

[bumblebee]

I am pleased that has turned out to be correct as well.

If you say both names out loud and keep the 'H' in Mcmahon silent, you can see that there is a great similarity between the sounds of the two spellings of the names.

Good luck with the rest.

Bumblebee

[genewizard]

Now I just need to try and find the deaths of Eva Lizzie and her husband Edward and son John Joseph. The details from the marriage certificate said they were married on the 03/12/1919 at the parish church of Birkenhead Edward was 32 a batchelor occupation Foreman living at 14 Leicester St his farther is listed as Job Roberts a Farmer.
Eva is listed as 27 a widow and living at 3 Howard St, Witnesses were John Jones and Elizabeth Mcmahon (Joseph's sister).
John Joseph McMahon's birth cert had him born on the 03/03/1915 at 46 Dunston Street Hebburn.
Hope someone can help me put this family to rest - so to speak.|banghead|

[bumblebee]

Hi genewizard

Do you happen to know Eva Lizzie's date of birth - not the year especially, just the day/month?

Bumblebee

[genewizard]

Hi Bumblebee I'm afraid I only know that it was registered in the 1st qtr of 1893 in South Shields, would it help to know her exact Dob as I could order the birth cert.
Genewizard

[bumblebee]

No it is just there is a death registered for an Eva Lizzie Roberts. As it is quite recent I will pm you the details. The year of birth is slightly out, but this can happen, however sometimes the actual birth day is the same..if you see what I mean. Just wondering if it was a way of discounting this particular one.

Bumblebee

[genewizard]

that would be great thanks bumblebee

[johnmcmann]

Your thread is interesting for me - I don't know that much about my (late )father's family - my sister and I are going to look into it. There are a number of coincidences in your research. My father was called William McMann- his father was called William and he died aged 65 circa 1959/60 could he have been the William aged 6? We live in Washington (10miles from South Shields). My grandmother's family (Blackwell) were from Pelaw which is near to S. Shields. My father always said that our name was originally McMahon (which is pronounced McMann by Irish people - I know that my ancestors did come from Ireland fairly recently - wouldn't it be strange if John McMann was my great grandfather? I know it's rather pathetic that I know so little about my father's family but he was a Catholic and my mother wasn't so there was a bit of a falling out there! Usual for the time I suppose! Good luck with your search let me know if you find anything out. (My daughter is called Eve - now that is a coincidence!) Best wishes, John McMann

[genewizard]

Hi John that would be great if you were related your explanation of the surname variation ties in, and my nanna did say that Eva used to come and visit the north East I just presumed it was to visit her father and sisters but maybe it wasn't, maybe it was to visit Jospeh's family. Lets hope togeather we can find out.
Genewizard