View Full Version : Richard & Eliza Leeke & Margaret Kirk
07-08-2008, 11:56 PM
Richard & Eliza Leeke (possible various spellings) also Margaret Kirk made the journey to Sacramento in 1883, how do I find when Richard & Eliza died.
Also how would I find Margarets Kirks marriage.
Richard was born in the U.S.A. about 1822 so his age may be 61.
Wife Eliza was Irish born 1824 so she would be 59.
Margaret Kirk was was born in Liverpool England 1865 her age would be 18, she was Elizas daughter from her first marriage.
Can anyone help or point me in the right direction to get this information please.
Or can anyone locate them in one of the census records please.
Thank you in advance for any help in this matter.
10-08-2008, 7:15 PM
I thought I was having Deja Vu.. and yes, this is the same posting you made about 4 months ago.
They STILL have not resurrected any 1890 census for the US so you are still in the same predicament.
As before, Eliza and margaret arrived in New Orleand in 1883 ... don't know where Richard is but most likely he arrived before them but I don't think it was by 1880 or he should surface on the census and nowhere have we found him in the areas you've suggested.
I tried a new approach this time. Assuming Richard and Eliza are dead by 1900 (and agewise, they probably were), and assuming that Margaret married and lived in Texas.. there are only 9 margaret's born in England and living in texas in 1900.
Margaret Mulhern (husband is marton) born about 1860 in England, immigrated 1883. Living in Bexar which is near San Antonio.
Margaret Schick (husband Frank) born about 1863 in England. Living in Brazoria which is down on the coast wouth of Galveston.
Margaret Kinley (husband is T.A.) born about 1861, immigrated 1878. Living in Caldwell which looks to be about 150 miles south of Dallas
Margaret crocker (husband is James) born about 1863. Living in Galveston.
Margaret Miller(husband is Alois) born about 1870. Living in Houston.
Margaret Mary (husband is Eary) born about 1867. Living in Houston.
Margaret Mitchell (husband Edward) born about 1860. Living in Uvalde which is west of San Antonio.
None of these would be in a days horseback ride from Dallas.
Did you ever get the marriage certificate for Richard and Eliza? If Margaret did not marry, she would've had to have been naturalized in the US, but certainly she married.
Where did Eliza's children end up? Maybe after Richard died she went back to England to be with them.
10-08-2008, 9:00 PM
Thanks for your help in this matter again.
Richard was head of the family back in Liverpool in the 1881 census.
I do have the marriage certificate for Richard & Eliza married 1871, is there anything you needed to know from it ?.
I only have a family tale that Margaret married and lived in or about Dallas.
Margaret was the only family member to go with her mother, all the others are still in Toxteth Park/Liverpool.
From your experience is there a Margaret you would pick from the list.
I have done a serch for Eliza Leeke in the Lancashire 1891-1901 census, no trace.
A big thanks for your help.
10-08-2008, 9:42 PM
When did this "Dallas" rumor start? Was it during or after the popular TV Show and family stories just made it Dallas as opposed to "some city in Texas"?
Texas is a big place. I would pick the first one except for the location not being anywhere near "dallas".
Who were the witnesses at the marriage? Did Richard have children from his first marriage?
10-08-2008, 11:18 PM
I have not found Richards 1st marriage but have found a reference to a Richard Lukes marriage in 1853.
This has to be sourced as yet.
The Dallas story came up in the conversation between my sister and grand mother in the 1960s.
There were letters from the Sacramento Settlement Office and possibly Margarets new home but all have been lost during my granmothers house moves before she died.
I have not been able to find any references to the Sacramento settlement office, I was hoping to find it so as to see if a data base existed.
I have a Richard Luke aged 38 in the 1871 census but if its him he has lost 10 years (49 on marriage cert) but he is an American and a widower.
11-08-2008, 8:37 PM
1853 marriage for Richard Luke is from Bristol, so no joy there.
Richard Leeke may well have married in the U.S.A. ?
02-11-2008, 9:51 PM
Okay.. a new stab in the dark, but maybe it will lead to something or .. erm.. something.
I was looking at the labs family search website and saw that they had some texas death records online and remembered that you thought maybe this family had ended up there.
Here is a margaret kirk who was born in liverpool about the right time and never married. If her parents were dead and she was single, then it's possible the informant really didn't know who her mother or father were which is why they aren't listed. I imagine by this time, Eliza would've been very dead. THis is at least a 3 hour drive from Dallas.. but then that part shouldn't be a problem. I think looking for the others in this area. It says she was buried in the luling city cemetery which might be a good place to look for eliza.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bowen/lulingcitycemetery.html is the link for who's in this cemetery and I couldn't even find a kirk on the list? There's email addy at the bottom of the page that you might want to write to along with the date and info on this death certificate and perhaps they can help.
Name: Margueret Kirk
Death date: 11 Nov 1934
Death place: Luling, Caldwell, Texas
Race or color (on document): white
Age at death: 65 years
Estimated birth year:
Birth date: 1869
Birth place: Liverpool, England
Marital status: Single
Father name: Kirk
Father birth place: England
Mother birth place:
Cemetery name: City
Burial place: Luling
Burial date: 12 Nov 1934
Film number: 2116171
Digital GS number: 4165889
Image number: 786
Reference number: v X cn 48148
Collection: Texas Deaths, 1890-1976
03-11-2008, 4:58 PM
Thanks for that info could be very helpful, fingers x
I had a look on that list and could not find Eliza or Richard Leeke.
I notice Margaret does not have an occupation, or is it not given ?
I will send this info to the email address and see if they can help.
Many thanks for keeping me in mind very good of you.
03-11-2008, 9:59 PM
go here: http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=0
the search for margueret kirk and choose the texas death one in caldwell, luling, texas that is born in 1869.
it lists her address as 307 E. Davis Street.
it does not list any occupation
the cause of death is bronchitis and it says she's had it for 20 years. It also says she suffered from malnutrition from senility and deformity (hunch back).
The informant is Mrs. J.L. Thompson but it does not say whether this is a neighbor, friend or relative.
It says she had been in the US for 45 years (which would make her arrival about 1889 if my math is correct).
The funeral director's name was Pierce or Peirce.
Finding out who paid for her cemetery plot would be helpful and would be in both the funeral home records (if it still exists) and/or the cemetery as would who is paying for the funeral or next of kin.
I recommend looking at the 1930 census for Caldwell, Luling, Texas and try and figure out who's living at the address given for her at her death.
04-11-2008, 6:45 PM
I think you may have hit the jackpot for me.
With out your help I would still be at the foot of the ladder.
Many many thanks for your help with my Kirk's.
So grateful Betsy.
Your a star.
04-11-2008, 9:07 PM
Based on the information that Betsy found for you. I have found Margaret Kirk in the 1900 - 1930 census' (I just can't think how I missed her when I found the original passenger list entry for Eliza Leeke and Margaret Kirk as I used all sorts of seach techniques at the time)
She is living as a boarder in the household of the Pinchin family in Luling, Caldwell, Texas through all four census...
In 1900 she is transcribed as Maysett Kirke and has no occupation, Richard Pinchin is "Hotel keeper"
In 1910 she is enumerated and transcribed as Kirk Margaret and her occupation is Needlework (cannot read Richard Pinchin's occupation)
In 1920 Margaret has no occupation, Richard Pinchin is a travelling salesman and his wife Elizabeth is a proprietess Art Store
In 1930 Margaret is transcribed as Margaret Kent (definitely Kirk on image) and her occupation is either Out? Manager or Art Manager, Hotel and Elizabeth Pinchin's occupation is Manager, Hotel and she owns her home. They live on Davies street.
If you want the images, just let me know
04-11-2008, 9:28 PM
Thanks for jumping in Yvonne. I canceled my census subscriptions so it's frustrating not being able to look up these things.
Have you found the J.L. THompson in the 1930 census who apparently gave the info for Margaret on her death? I'm curious why the Pinchin's didn't give the info unless Mrs. J.L. THompson is related to either the Pinchin's or Margaret. Living with someone for over 30 years would make you about as close as family.
The death records I have only go back to 1908 and I think it's pretty much a given that Richard and Eliza were dead before then. Not sure if any death records for Luling are available prior to that time. Hoping that they will be in the same cemetery as Margaret.
I'm still puzzled as to why they went to Caldwell, Texas (which sounds nothing like "dallas" or "sacramento"). Another puzzle is Richard on US Census BEFORE he went to England. I never found him there either so no idea if he had siblings and if they might have been either a. Thompson or b. Pinchin.
Was there an Elizabeth (sister of Margaret) who might have come over and married Pinchin?
Just lots of questions and no answers at this point but at least there's some progress being made.
05-11-2008, 11:18 AM
Thanks for help I have sent you a pm.
Sacramento came into it from letters recieved by Margaret Kirk's sister Jane Ann Kirk back in Liverpool.
It was supposed to be from a re-settlement camp in Sacramento.
All letters have since been lost mores the pity and great loss.
It is more than possible that the stories told by my grand mother could have embroided more than was actual truth.
Margaret went out as a school/music teacher.
It would be nice to find the death and place of Richard & Eliza Leeke but you never know.
Between yourself and Betsy you have done great.
Thank you both again.
07-11-2008, 4:18 PM
Yes I would like to see the images if its no trouble for you.
22-02-2010, 10:27 PM
I was curious as to who Richard and Elizabeth Pinchin were.
Richard Pennefather Pinchin (b: 1 May 1845 Galway d: 28 Feb 1929 and buried in Luling, Caldwell, TX) and Elizabeth Kettlewell (b: 18 oct 1844 in Clonmel, d: 23 oct 1838 and buried in Luling, TX) were from County Cork, Ireland. Married in Waterford in 1875. Had a son in 1877 and then immigrated to the US -- through New York and ending up in Texas.
It looks like Margaret Kirk lived with them for many MANY years... as if she never went to sacaramento at all ... and just stayed in Luling Texas the entire time.
Richard was the son of JOhn Pinchin and Haidee Leonard
Elizabeth was the daughter of Rev. Kettlewell
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