John Smith

[BrendaE]

This is a pretty hopeless case but I guess it's worth an effort. These are the facts known about my husband's birth father. His name was John Smith (yeah, I know!) and he was a rear-gunner in the RAF who went down with his plane 'somewhere'. He was, presumably, stationed near Blackpool where he met my mother-in-law and a brief romance followed which resulted in her pregnancy so he was alive somewhere between Nov 1941 and July 1942. Mother-in-law said he flew in a Lancaster but a reliable source says those dates don't fit and it must have been a Manchester. There are no other facts and, sadly, my husband did not ask any more questions. I suspect he had been conditions never to speak about these things, as happened long ago. Where do we start looking? Indeed, do we start looking or just be thankful my husband was given at least that small crumb of information?

Bren

[brewerreg]

Hi Bren.
I was looking through some records of a John Smith (Not your John.
Noted this which may or may not be of interest to you.
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:FxXRHyT3uUgJ:www.nationalarchives.g ov.uk/A2A/records.aspx%3Fcat%3D124-1730%26cid%3D-1%26Gsm%3D2008-06-18+John+Smith+RAF+blackpool+1942&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=au

RB

[Geoffers]

This is a pretty hopeless case but I guess it's worth an effort. These are the facts known about my husband's birth father. His name was John Smith (yeah, I know!)

Uuuuugh! Talk about a needle in a haystack


and he was a rear-gunner in the RAF who went down with his plane 'somewhere'. He was, presumably, stationed near Blackpool where he met my mother-in-law and a brief romance followed which resulted in her pregnancy so he was alive somewhere between Nov 1941 and July 1942. Mother-in-law said he flew in a Lancaster but a reliable source says those dates don't fit and it must have been a Manchester.

As a starter, you might try the CGWC (http://www.cwgc.org/default.asp) - limiting the search to what you know. At a guess, you are likely to get 100-200 hits. If your chap was a rear gunner, you can discount those who were officers. You then might narrow the list by a third to a half. It is then a case of trying to eliminate the remaining entries one by one - a long task, put the kettle on.

Does your husband have any photos of his dad by which his rank might be ascertained? Any other crumbs of information - a part of the country that he came from, was he British or from the Commonwealth?

[BrendaE]

Hi Bren.
I was looking through some records of a John Smith (Not your John.
Noted this which may or may not be of interest to you.
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:FxXRHyT3uUgJ:www.nationalarchives.g ov.uk/A2A/records.aspx%3Fcat%3D124-1730%26cid%3D-1%26Gsm%3D2008-06-18+John+Smith+RAF+blackpool+1942&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=au

RB


Thank you, I shall check that out shortly.

Bren

[BrendaE]

Uuuuugh! Talk about a needle in a haystack



As a starter, you might try the CGWC (http://www.cwgc.org/default.asp) - limiting the search to what you know. At a guess, you are likely to get 100-200 hits. If your chap was a rear gunner, you can discount those who were officers. You then might narrow the list by a third to a half. It is then a case of trying to eliminate the remaining entries one by one - a long task, put the kettle on.

Does your husband have any photos of his dad by which his rank might be ascertained? Any other crumbs of information - a part of the country that he came from, was he British or from the Commonwealth?

Thank you, I shall have a look at that. No, there are no photos, no description, no squadron details, no nothing. Syd thought his mother said the fellow was from Lancashire but somehow, I can't help wondering if his memory (or imagination) has played tricks on him as far as that is concerned. The only reason mother-in-law knew about his death was that on telling her parents she was pregnant, her mother took her down to the RAF base to confront the fellow. That's when she was told his plane had been shot down. None of this was known until she decided, shortly before she died, that Syd ought to know who his birth father was. I'm afraid the stigma of 'illegitimacy' was very real once upon a time.

Bren

[keith9351]

Hi Bren
Just a thought, have you tried approaching it from a different angle? If you know the place then try to find Bomber Commands nearest Airfield, then which Squadron based there and look up Squadron Histories to find what operations were flown and casualty list.

Wikipedia has the Lancaster being supplied to Squadrons early 1942.
"The first RAF squadron to convert to the Lancaster was No. 44 Squadron RAF in early 1942."

Keith

[Geoffers]

Do try Keith's approach in the mesage above


there are no photos, no description, no squadron details, no nothing.

Curses


The only reason mother-in-law knew about his death was that on telling her parents she was pregnant, her mother took her down to the RAF base to confront the fellow. That's when she was told his plane had been shot down.

There are two points of view here:

1. The cynic in me thinks this is a convenient way to avoid deailng with an unwanted child and that he may not have been killed. Sorry if this causes any offence but it is something that must be considered.

2. An awful lot of air crew were killed in WW2 so it is quite possible that she was told the truth - but at least this very substantially narrows down the period in which he could have died. Looking at CWGC there appear to be 9 John SMITHs who fall into the crietia given - Combine the dates with the nearby RAF station and Kieth approach and you may get somewhere.

[BrendaE]

There are two points of view here:

1. The cynic in me thinks this is a convenient way to avoid dealing with an unwanted child and that he may not have been killed. Sorry if this causes any offence but it is something that must be considered.

2. An awful lot of air crew were killed in WW2 so it is quite possible that she was told the truth - but at least this very substantially narrows down the period in which he could have died. Looking at CWGC there appear to be 9 John SMITHs who fall into the crietia given - Combine the dates with the nearby RAF station and Kieth approach and you may get somewhere.

No offence is taken at all. I am well aware there are discrepancies in what mother-in-law said.
I have looked at the most likely John Smiths on CWGC but of course, it creates more questions. For instance, last night my husband said his John Smith was shot down over Germany. Now that would, I presume, mean it most unlikely there is a grave or, if there is, would it be in one of the German cemeteries? If not, I presume his name could be on a memorial. That would narrow the field down. Then again, I find no rear gunners on the list and now my husband says, "No, he was an air gunner". I have no idea if they are one and the same thing and whichever one he was, I presume he was not ranked. Hmmm.
Bren

[BrendaE]

Hi Bren
Just a thought, have you tried approaching it from a different angle? If you know the place then try to find Bomber Commands nearest Airfield, then which Squadron based there and look up Squadron Histories to find what operations were flown and casualty list.

Wikipedia has the Lancaster being supplied to Squadrons early 1942.
"The first RAF squadron to convert to the Lancaster was No. 44 Squadron RAF in early 1942."

Keith

Thank you Keith, I shall try that tack. And thanks for the info on the Lancaster which makes me more confident in the rest of the tale.

Bren

[keith9351]

Air Gunners operate flexible-mount or turret-mounted machine guns or autocannons in an aircraft. So the way I see it, a Rear Gunner would be a Air Gunner.
This site my assist you in locating RAF Stations/Squadrons

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/index.html

Keith

[BrendaE]

Air Gunners operate flexible-mount or turret-mounted machine guns or autocannons in an aircraft. So the way I see it, a Rear Gunner would be a Air Gunner.
This site my assist you in locating RAF Stations/Squadrons

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/index.html

Keith

Thank you, Keith. I am now working my way through the squadrons on the site to see if anything offers a further clue. I shall let you know if anything transpires. Much appreciated.

Bren

[Lesley Robertson]

Thank you, Keith. I am now working my way through the squadrons on the site to see if anything offers a further clue. I shall let you know if anything transpires. Much appreciated.

Bren


You could go to Lost Bombers http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/, tell the search engine you're looking for Lancs and give it the expected dates, and then work you rway through the hits. Where planes were lost, he gives the names of the crews.

Lesley

[Peph]

Hi, Bren,

Like Geoffers, my immediate reaction was "He's been killed? Well, they WOULD say that, wouldn't they!"

I think I'd be off in search of a John Smith who may even still be alive. Wouldn't that be a turn up for the book?!