Brickwall - Rose Smith

[wendandmerlin]

I am really struggling - has anyone got any bright ideas pls?

I have been trying to trace info for my Great Grandmother, Rose Smith. She gave birth to my Grandfather Reginald John Smith on 2/1/1912 at Twyford Lodge, Willesden. He died in 1977. It turns out Twyford Lodge is a euphanism for Willesden Workhouse.
I have contacted LMA requesting to see admission papers for Rose Smith at Willesden Workhouse but they tell me that, despite having files for Willesden Workhouse, records for Twyford Lodge did not survive.

To get any further with my research I need Rose Smith's date of birth. The only clue I have about her is that on my Grandfather's birth cert, for some reason in the signature & maiden name column, it lists her as a General Domestic Servant at 75 Craven Park Rd, Willesden. In the residence column it shows Twyford Lodge. If she was in the workhouse why did it show where she worked? Is there any way I can get her date of birth from somewhere?

I've tried searching BMD, assuming that Rose was 16+ when she had my Grandfather and there are a few that were born in Willesden abt 1895, but I can't tell which one would be my Rose Smith

Any advice or ideas would be appreciated - it's soooo frustrating when you're stuck!!! |help|


Many thanks
Wend

[thepalace1]

Do you know when Rose Smith passed away?

[v.wells]

1901 Census

RG13/12/109/46

Willesdan, Middlesex
Thomas J. Smith H age 35 Labourer, Hayes Middlesex
Kate W age 32
Kate dau age 10
Rose dau age 6
Grace M dau age 3

All born Willesden, Middlesex

Rose's age fits

[wendandmerlin]

Hi Vanessa

Thanks so much for that! That's really kind of you.

That does fit, but only if she's 16/17 - what if she was older - aaargh!

[wendandmerlin]

Unfortunately I don't have a date of death for her - in fact I have v little info - when he was alive my Grandfather never spoke about her, there's "family talk" that he may have been adopted, there is no father listed on his birth cert either

[v.wells]

Thomas Smith m Kate Treadaway 1890 Bethnal Green, Gtr London, vol 1c p 299 1Q

[wendandmerlin]

Thank you again! You are a mine of info!

That's what I like so much about this site, eveyone helps each other where poss - I guess everyone's been through a brickwall phase |banghead|

[thepalace1]

Unfortunately I don't have a date of death for her - in fact I have v little info - when he was alive my Grandfather never spoke about her, there's "family talk" that he may have been adopted, there is no father listed on his birth cert either

Not sure how adoption works with regards to birth index, but I think If he was adopted, then he would have be registered in the name his mother gave him before being adopted, and not that of the adopting mother.

I say this as I have found his birth index as follows

Reginal J Smith, Jan-Mar Quater 1912, Mothers Maiden Name Smith, born in Willesden.

So if my theory about the adoption/birth thing being correct, then this would disprove the adoption theory.

If you understand what i mean,

[wendandmerlin]

I do see what you mean, thanks for that. Must have been family chinese whispers - seems to happen a lot, people don't know for sure so they make it up :D

[wendandmerlin]

I did find out that I can do an address search on the 1911 census for £45.00 - if she's a General Domestic Servant at 75 Craven Park Rd, Willesden in 1912 on Reginald's birth cert, the chances are she may have been working there in 1911 - if that is the case am I right in thinking it will list her age on the census? I guess I could work her birth year out from that? Wonder if that might be money well spent? :)

[v.wells]

I would not spend that money. It would be cheaper to find the birth registration thru GRO yourself. The parents married in Bethnal Green and the 1901 census is Willesden so between the 2 places there should be a birth registration. You could order one of the other children's b cert's. I don't think people moved yearly back then. I will have another look and see if we can narrow down some good possibilities. But hold onto that thought , the night isn't over yet.

This b cert should tell you her age "Reginal J Smith, Jan-Mar Quater 1912, Mothers Maiden Name Smith, born in Willesden."

[v.wells]

Sorry, forgot you had birth cert

1891 Census 68 Bromley Hall Rd, Bromley RG12/324/112/74

Thomas H age 30 gas worker Hayes, Middlesex
Kate Wife age 28 Hayes, Middlesex
James son age 9 East Acton, Middlesex
Ada dau age 5 Hendon, Middlesex
Faith dau age 2 Poplar, Middlesex
Eva dau age 1 Shepherd's Bush, Middlesex