Boy am I stuck, in need of help

[thepalace1]

Hello, I have hit a stumbling block, Hop anyone can help or give guidance.

I will start with a tree

Alice Amelia ? ( My great great grandmother ) born 11 May 1880, died 28 Feb 1956

her 4 children are

Florence May Searle born 3 June 1904 in Lewisham, died May 1986 in Lewisham

Herbert William Searle ( my great grandfather ) born 3 Dec 1907 in lewisham, died Jun quater 1970 in Bromley

Frederick John Searle, born 13 January 1910 in lewisham, died 1976.

David S Searle [DURRANT], born 25 Feb 1917 in Lewisham, died 15 October 1987 in Lewisham.
(Now David S Searle is registered as David S DURRANT on his birth certificate)

-------

Now, on Florence's birth certificate her father is down as Frederick Searle (Builder)
yet on her marriage certificate it says Arthur William Searle ( Builder )

on Herbert William Searle's birth certificate it says Father Unknown

Don't have Fredericks birth certificate, but you can tell by pictures that he is the spitting image of Herbert (so i am presuming they have the same father as they look nothing like there mother Alice Amelia ?)

Now as for David S Searle, on his birth certificate his name is David S Searle (DURRANT)
and that is It Nothing else at all

On David S Searles marriage certificate it says father Arthur David Searle [Deseased] Builder

On All certificates i have for her children it says mother = Alice Amelia Searle, maiden name also Searle

I have patchy information that Alice Amelia ? could have had the Name DAY as a surname
but this may not be correct.

I also have information that Alice Amelia's mother married a chap with the surname Searle and that Alcie Amelia married the Son of that Searle Chap, so marrying her mothers step son. ( Boy am I confused ).

I definately know Herbert, David, Frederick and Flo's dad was a Builder as he built loads of houses Down Catford way years and years and years ago.

I have found a birth entry for Alice Amelia Searle born Whittlesey in Cambridgeshire, but this is not the correct record, as this Alice Amelia Searle married a chap by the name of Charles William Neal in Whittlesey in 1908 and had a few children 1 being Frances Neal in 1912, so I have discounted this birth index entry.


Where can I go from here?, short of having to wait for the 1911 census to be available in 2009 ( although it will be limited data till 2012 )
( I know you can look up addresses in the 1911 census under the FOI act for £45, but I have no address)

I can't get a birth certificate for Alice Amelia, As i don't know what name she was born under.


There are no marriage indexes for any Alice Amelia to a searle in the period 1898 to 1956, yet Alice Amelia's death certificate dated 28/02/1956 it states WIDOW of Arthur William Curtis




Wow wasn't Alice Amelia a mysterious lady.

[Procat]

Hi,

I have moved this thread to Brickwalls as I think it is more suited here.

[pipsqueak]

Do you know anything about her whereabouts in the available census years? There are at least 11 Alice Amelias on the 1881 census for England, for example, and 33 Alice Amelias listed on FreeBMD for the 2nd quarter of 1880. If you have any clue at all where she might have been born that would be a start.

None of the above have any of the surnames you mentioned though... so I think you have to begin with places.

[thepalace1]

Do you know anything about her whereabouts in the available census years? There are at least 11 Alice Amelias on the 1881 census for England, for example, and 33 Alice Amelias listed on FreeBMD for the 2nd quarter of 1880. If you have any clue at all where she might have been born that would be a start.

None of the above have any of the surnames you mentioned though... so I think you have to begin with places.

I pulled those records my self, but i if i am correct in thinking, then Her birth index records may be either Alice A ? or Alice Amelia, I think there are a shed load more Alice A's born 1880. Same goes for the census returns i think, she could easily have been put on the census as Alice A, Alice Amelia, or even just Alice I suppose.

My grandmother was of the recallection that she was from the Lewisham area, but this just may not be correct.

I have been in contact with David S Searle's wife Jessie and she gave this information about Alice Amelia





---
Jessie said Alice was definatly a mystery woman never spoke about her past only ever mentioned a brother called SYD and the possibility of an Uncle William, and she never knew about a husband or heard her talk about a wedding annivesary,or where she came from
---

Now there is an Alice Day registerd correct quater of 1880 in W.Ashford in Kent

[pipsqueak]

she could easily have been put on the census as Alice A, Alice Amelia, or even just Alice I suppose.


....or even just Amelia!

[pipsqueak]

I think I would concentrate on South-East London and try to find a family with a girl called Alice and a boy called Sydney in 1881 and 1891 (which would allow for her brother being either older or younger than AA). I've been having a look for you but no joy so far.

[jt67]

Are you sure she married at all? Maybe she just lived with him and the children have her surname (step surname). If it says she was widow to a curtis this maybe a case of living as his wife or she really did marry a curtis but for some reason lived as a searle.

[thepalace1]

Hello, I have hit a stumbling block, Hop anyone can help or give guidance.

I will start with a tree

Alice Amelia ? ( My great great grandmother ) born 11 May 1880, died 28 Feb 1956

her 4 children are

Florence May Searle born 3 June 1904 in Lewisham, died May 1986 in Lewisham

Herbert William Searle ( my great grandfather ) born 3 Dec 1907 in lewisham, died Jun quater 1970 in Bromley

Frederick John Searle, born 13 January 1910 in lewisham, died 1976.

David S Searle [DURRANT], born 25 Feb 1917 in Lewisham, died 15 October 1987 in Lewisham.
(Now David S Searle is registered as David S DURRANT on his birth certificate)

-------

Now, on Florence's birth certificate her father is down as Frederick Searle (Builder)
yet on her marriage certificate it says Arthur William Searle ( Builder )

on Herbert William Searle's birth certificate it says Father Unknown

Don't have Fredericks birth certificate, but you can tell by pictures that he is the spitting image of Herbert (so i am presuming they have the same father as they look nothing like there mother Alice Amelia ?)

Now as for David S Searle, on his birth certificate his name is David S Searle (DURRANT)
and that is It Nothing else at all

On David S Searles marriage certificate it says father Arthur David Searle [Deseased] Builder

On All certificates i have for her children it says mother = Alice Amelia Searle, maiden name also Searle

I have patchy information that Alice Amelia ? could have had the Name DAY as a surname
but this may not be correct.

I also have information that Alice Amelia's mother married a chap with the surname Searle and that Alcie Amelia married the Son of that Searle Chap, so marrying her mothers step son. ( Boy am I confused ).

I definately know Herbert, David, Frederick and Flo's dad was a Builder as he built loads of houses Down Catford way years and years and years ago.

I have found a birth entry for Alice Amelia Searle born Whittlesey in Cambridgeshire, but this is not the correct record, as this Alice Amelia Searle married a chap by the name of Charles William Neal in Whittlesey in 1908 and had a few children 1 being Frances Neal in 1912, so I have discounted this birth index entry.


Where can I go from here?, short of having to wait for the 1911 census to be available in 2009 ( although it will be limited data till 2012 )
( I know you can look up addresses in the 1911 census under the FOI act for £45, but I have no address)

I can't get a birth certificate for Alice Amelia, As i don't know what name she was born under.


There are no marriage indexes for any Alice Amelia to a searle in the period 1898 to 1956, yet Alice Amelia's death certificate dated 28/02/1956 it states WIDOW of Arthur William Curtis




Wow wasn't Alice Amelia a mysterious lady.



Sorry for the mistake, bu this bit

There are no marriage indexes for any Alice Amelia to a searle in the period 1898 to 1956, yet Alice Amelia's death certificate dated 28/02/1956 it states WIDOW of Arthur William Curtis


should read

There are no marriage indexes for any Alice Amelia to a searle in the period 1898 to 1956, yet Alice Amelia's death certificate dated 28/02/1956 it states WIDOW of Arthur William SEARLE

(Searle not Curtis)

[Geoffers]

Alice Amelia ? ( My great great grandmother ) born 11 May 1880, died 28 Feb 1956
On All certificates i have for her children it says mother = Alice Amelia Searle, maiden name also Searle

From the birth certificates that you possess - are full addresses given as place of birth?

If they are, have you tried turning to street directories to see if the occupant of that/those address(es) are shown?

If they are, are any SEARLEs?

Taking the earliest known birth, have you tried an address search of the 1901 census to see who is recorded there?

[thepalace1]

The address where born on all certificates is the hospital address, but for residence of mother it says

12a Adamsville Road
Lower Sydenham

,

I have subscription to Ancestry.co.uk

do i look through all the enumeration district sheets to find which one would include Adamsville road?, then go through the district till i find the entries for that street.

[Procat]

Try looking for it on the 1901 census site where you can do an address search. That will give you a district etc. Using that it will then be a matter of trawling through the district sheets to find it.

[thepalace1]

Try looking for it on the 1901 census site where you can do an address search. That will give you a district etc. Using that it will then be a matter of trawling through the district sheets to find it.

Yes i tried that on the 1901censusonline.com website, yet it doesn;t like to name Adamsville or Adamsville Road, it returns none found.

Yet adamsville road was around in 1901, as i have found and old map which has Adamsville Road on it in Lower Sydenham, and the map is from the late 1890's.

? Did everyone on Adamsville Road in 1901 abstain from filling out their census returns????? or is it just going to be a hard slog to find it manually.

[blue eyes]

Theres a birth for a Alice Amelia Durrant district Lewisham year 1881 Jul/Aug/Sept 1/4. Have you considered this one?.

[thepalace1]

Theres a birth for a Alice Amelia Durrant district Lewisham year 1881 Jul/Aug/Sept 1/4. Have you considered this one?.


I had looked for the possibility of her being a DURRANT, but my grandmother (Alice's grand daughter) said she had recalled over hearing her farther talking whilst she was young, saying that his brother David had a different father to the rest of them.

This led me to believe that Alice had met a chap by the name Durrant in 1916 and subsiquently had David in february 1917, rather than her being Durrant.

Plus.

I know she was born on 11 May from certain documentation I have, and on her death certificate it says

she died on 28 February 1956 aged 75 years, so she would have been 76 that coming May, meaning she must definately have been born on 11 May 1880

[Procat]

Yes i tried that on the 1901censusonline.com website, yet it doesn;t like to name Adamsville or Adamsville Road, it returns none found.

Yet adamsville road was around in 1901, as i have found and old map which has Adamsville Road on it in Lower Sydenham, and the map is from the late 1890's.

? Did everyone on Adamsville Road in 1901 abstain from filling out their census returns????? or is it just going to be a hard slog to find it manually.

It's possible the enumerator failed to record the name of the road on the schedules.

[blue eyes]

The nice man at Lewisham Archives is going to look up the ref for Adamsville Road.
He had a look on the electoral roll but only names listed not the number of the houses.
Searle wasnt recorded.

[MaureeninNY]

Could that possibly be ADAMSRILL Road-not Adamsville?

[Marie C..]

Alice may have been baptised at St. Bartholomew's Church Sydenham. Records for St. Barts . are at Lewisham library.

[blue eyes]

Adamsrill (not Adamsville) Road 1901

RG13/556
from folio 108

[thepalace1]

Wow, and its no wonder why I come back to these forums time and time again.

Not only is everyone on here so helpful and willing to help, your all great too.

Thank you to everyone individually for your continual support.