Millers

[Fellwalker]

My 3 x great grandfather CHARLES MOSS is described on census forms as a miller--later a corn miller
He was born in Ormskirk c 1807 and by 1841 was in Liverpool
Does anybody know if millers underwent an apprenticeship or is it more likely that CHARLES MOSS learned on the job?
I have been unable to trace his birth so don't know if his father was a miller too.
If he was an apprentice, do records offices hold records of this?
Thank you

[Jan1954]

If Charles married after 1 July 1837, you should be able to track down his marriage certificate. This should then provide the details of his father and occupation.

[Fellwalker]

Charles married in Liverpool in 1832 and I have a copy of the record which unfortunately doesn't give the name of his father or occupation!

[Peter Goodey]

He was born in Ormskirk c 1807... I have been unable to trace his birth

Perhaps I'm missing something here but how about checking the Ormskirk parish registers?

[Colin Moretti]

... Does anybody know if millers underwent an apprenticeship or is it more likely that CHARLES MOSS learned on the job?
...Apprentices usually learned on the job, I rather doubt that the majority (if any) had any formal off-the-job training as is required these days.

Read the TNA leaflet about apprentices:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=295

It's unlikely that there will be a copy of any indenture surviving (but see below) as apprenticeships were private agreements between the parent or guardian of the child and the master; occasionally they may be found in county archives but very few survive. They may or may not have been catalogued.

The exceptions are parish apprenticeships, paid for by the Poor Law Guardians, in the child was a pauper. Rather more of those survive (but it's by no means certain); you will need to look in the CRO for the child's home parish. Again, there's no guarantee that they have been catalogued. If trade guilds existed at the time and in the area then there might be surviving records. Membership of London companies was only required for someone wishing to trade in the City.

Colin

[Fellwalker]

Perhaps I'm missing something here but how about checking the Ormskirk parish registers?

Thank you for your suggestion Peter, but I have looked at the OPC for Ormskirk and the decade or so around his possible birth year are missing. I have been to Preston records office & while the dates were there I was unable to trace him--I may have missed him as the records were very faint in places and not easy to follow.
AS he moved to Liverpool. I checked the records for the church where he married & his children were baptised--also other local churches but not found him there either. I haven't found him through IGI either .
Eileen

[Fellwalker]

Apprentices usually learned on the job, I rather doubt that the majority (if any) had any formal off-the-job training as is required these days.

Read the TNA leaflet about apprentices:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=295

It's unlikely that there will be a copy of any indenture surviving (but see below) as apprenticeships were private agreements between the parent or guardian of the child and the master; occasionally they may be found in county archives but very few survive. They may or may not have been catalogued.

The exceptions are parish apprenticeships, paid for by the Poor Law Guardians, in the child was a pauper. Rather more of those survive (but it's by no means certain); you will need to look in the CRO for the child's home parish. Again, there's no guarantee that they have been catalogued. If trade guilds existed at the time and in the area then there might be surviving records. Membership of London companies was only required for someone wishing to trade in the City.

Colin

Colin--thank you for your reply.& the info about the leaflet-I'll follow that up
I feel that Charles probably didn't have a formal apprenticeship , partly becuse 2 of his sons were down on census returns as apprentice millers and I expect that they learned the trade with their father--this also happened in other branches of my family--sons were apprentices in the trade that their fathers followed. I'll ring Preston records office and see if they hold any records for Ormskirk & Liverpool for there as the 2 appropriate archives offices that may have records. I'll also ask them about trade guilds
Thank you for your help
Eileen