Arrrggghhh I've got Convicts

[ash33au]

Here I was sprouting to all and sundry about my Royal lineage that is comprehensively documented, when suddenly I strike convicts.

They are on my fathers side, whereas the royals are on mum's so no connection to each other lol |laugh1|

I was actually searching long and hard for a particular line and imagine my shock when I found out that my gggg grandfather Charles Summerell earned himself a permanent vacation to Australia after being convicted of horse stealing on 9 Oct 1802 and sentenced to 14 years including transportation to NSW.

He later married Mary Webb who was also a convict. I don't know the complete details of Mary's sentence but do know she was busted stealing a piece of silk with two friends.

[Procat]

So now you have British Royalty and Australian Royalty. :D

[ash33au]

Hahaha yeah well apparently it is a source of pride if you have Convicts in your lineage in Australia. Those first fleeter's descendants certainly think so anyway...

[Procat]

Indeed. The attitude has certainly changed in the last 40 years or so.

[Ladkyis]

When you look at some of the charges that were levelled against them and you remember that being transported for seven years could mean a much better life for some of the people I cannot see any shame in having them as ancestors.

They had already done whatever they were sentenced for, the only difference is that now you know. It can't change you.

Oh and I am dead envious because somewhere there will be a physical description of that ancestor with details of address and sometimes next of kin. I would love to find a black sheep, I am so envious. All I have are a couple of muddy grey ones who might just have something dubious in their history - oh and my actors of course.

[ash33au]

So now you have British Royalty and Australian Royalty. :D

Oh and Doug that would be Prussian royalty linking me to almost every other royal family in european history :cool:

Unfortunately I am not living the royal life, instead stuck in front of two computers typing away all day long and getting paid when my editors remember to pay.

[MarkJ]

Bear in mind also that many of these people were transported for very minor "crimes", often carried out because of desperation - poaching to put a meal on the table for a large family for example.

Mark

[Chisel]

Oh and I am dead envious because somewhere there will be a physical description of that ancestor with details of address and sometimes next of kin. I would love to find a black sheep, I am so envious. All I have are a couple of muddy grey ones who might just have something dubious in their history - oh and my actors of course.

Contact the Tassie Archives as I got quite a bit on my 2xgt grandfather including a very good description of him and also found a picture of him.|jumphappy

[Jan1954]

Ash33au,

Have you checked to see if either he or Mary are mentioned here (http://vcp.e2bn.org/)?

[Browneyes]

I haven't come across any black sheep YET in my family tree although I do have a bit of conundrum at the moment with a strange marriage situation....but it might of course be due to an error on my part (I'll be posting if its not!).

I wonder what they intended to do with the piece of silk...

Browneyes

[ChristineR]

I wonder what they intended to do with the piece of silk...

Sell it ;)

I would not be who I am today if it was not for one ggg grandfather deciding to knock off a Silk weavers house - he got caught with a few baskets of silk thread and cloth. Off to the colonies with him - from failed burglar to Gentleman, probably something which could not have happened to him in England, even if he had worked hard at something legal.

ChristineR

[MarkJ]

My wifes grandfather served in Burma during WW2. He "smuggled" silk back to the UK in his shoe, socks and goodness knows where else for his bride to be to have a wedding gown.
Much later of course than those folks sent to Australia!

Mark

[ash33au]

Ash33au,

Have you checked to see if either he or Mary are mentioned here (http://vcp.e2bn.org/)?

Thanks Jan. Couldn't find them on there |banghead|

[ash33au]

Here's what I did find on the Monaro Pioneers website.

I've tidied up the grammar and punctuation a little.

The Summerell Story

On 13th August 1803 Charles Summerell appeared in the Somerset Summer Assizes, England charged with stealing a grey gelding worth 10 pounds on 9th October 1802 - property of Thomas Hunt. The offence was committed at Nailsea (near or part of Bristol.) He pleaded not guilty and was sentenced to hang but he was reprieved and the sentence was commuted to 14 years transportation to the east coast of New South Wales, Australia. Sailing from England on the 28th of January 1806, Charles arrived in Sydney on the 12th of July 1806 as a convict aboard the ship Fortune 1, a voyage of 165 days.
260 convicts embarked with 256 disembarking following the death of four. The Fortune 1 was under the command of Henry Moore, the muster of convicts was mixed with the muster of Alexander. These transports were to sail with a ship commanded by William Bligh, who was going out to become governor of NSW.
In 1820 Charles petitioned Governor Macquarie for a land grant as his sentence had expired in 1817. It is unknown whether he received the grant. On November 24th 1825 Charles was granted his official certificate of freedom. At this time he was 47 years old, had a dark, sallow complexion, black to grey hair and dark eyes and was 5'6" tall. His certificate stated that he was a native of Gloucestershire and was a pin maker by trade, although his court case stated that he was a labourer.
O the 15th of July 1815 Charles(31) married Mary Webb (21) at St Johns in Parramatta. They were married by the Reverend Samuel Marsden. Mary was also a convict, having arrived on the Wanstead in 1814. Mary Webb, Amelia Maton and Mary Smith, all single women stole one piece of printed cotton of the value of 1 pound 12 shillings from the shop of Thomas Gibbs in the Parish of Christ Church (Southwark) in the county of Surrey on 19th of Feb 1813. Convicted at Surrey Assizes on 29th March 1813 to 7 years transportation. She was a nursemaid on arrival and was aged 20. On the 13th of January 1814, only a few days after her arrival, Mary was on a list of women prisoners from the Wanstead sent to Parramatta.

[ash33au]

Charles and Mary's son William got himself into strife and was transported to Port Arthur in Tasmania. Some people never learn |soapbox|

[annwilkie]

I live in Tasmania where Port Arthur was a place of secondary punishment for those who re-offended once they had been transported. Contrary to some beliefs, many of the transportees were hardened crims. If your ancestors were sent here let me know and I may be able to dig out some info for you.

[ash33au]

Thanks Ann.

William Summerell is his name, he was the son of Charles Summerell and Mary Webb, both of whom were convicts themselves.

[v.wells]

When you look at some of the charges that were levelled against them and you remember that being transported for seven years could mean a much better life for some of the people I cannot see any shame in having them as ancestors.

They had already done whatever they were sentenced for, the only difference is that now you know. It can't change you.

Oh and I am dead envious because somewhere there will be a physical description of that ancestor with details of address and sometimes next of kin. I would love to find a black sheep, I am so envious. All I have are a couple of muddy grey ones who might just have something dubious in their history - oh and my actors of course.

I wholeheartedly agree with that! I have never been to OZ but what a country to be proud of. Hooray for the convicts!:D

[ash33au]

Hmmm what a family...

Another of Charles and Mary's children, James was married to one woman whilst having about a dozen kids with someone else!

[v.wells]

It's called populating the density:D

[ash33au]

Hahaha well one of the others had 17 kids with the one wife...

[annwilkie]

I had a look on the port arthur site but it would not show william ...they will do a search but as usual it costs library@portarthur.org.au
When you are actually there there are some computers to do searches on. If you have not been it is well worh a visit
Ann

[barrie2302]

Hahaha well one of the others had 17 kids with the one wife...

Blimey. It makes your eyes water just thinking about it.

Barrie.

[Clueless Gypsy]

Here I was sprouting to all and sundry about my Royal lineage that is comprehensively documented, when suddenly I strike convicts.

They are on my fathers side, whereas the royals are on mum's so no connection to each other lol |laugh1|

I was actually searching long and hard for a particular line and imagine my shock when I found out that my gggg grandfather Charles Summerell earned himself a permanent vacation to Australia after being convicted of horse stealing on 9 Oct 1802 and sentenced to 14 years including transportation to NSW.

He later married Mary Webb who was also a convict. I don't know the complete details of Mary's sentence but do know she was busted stealing a piece of silk with two friends.

Oh Congratulations, how wonderful - you have now joined the ranks of the elite !!! :D

Consider it a blessing. They are some of the most informative rellies to be hunting for. l've got the indents for a few of mine (l have 7 at recent count) and there is so much information it's mind boggling. Physical descriptions all the way down to eye and hair color, height, native place, religion, siblings and parents names if you're lucky.

Some of the crimes are a bit suspect though. My 4 x great grandfather was convicted at the age of 10 and sent to Tasmania at age 11 - there were over 140 boys, presumedly all under the age of 13 on that particular voyage.
How cruel they were considered so unredeemable they had to be sent halfway across the world away from their families by the magistrates. |nopity|

[tony bennett]

be proud of your black sheep rather than your royal ancestors. ask yourself is it a worse crime to steal a horse or to steal thousands of acres of land and to oppress people. present royal family are fine but going back they were evil. i had an ancestor who as transported to australia for stealing toys at the age of 14.bye tony