Some Jewish Look Ups able to be undertaken

[Debbie Bozkurt]

So far all I have done in this forum is post threads asking for help with parish records etc. this is mostly because previously I have been undertaking mostly Jewish Research.

I figured its time to help pay back some kindness :), I have a small personal collection of Jewish Books which I don't mind looking up details for people. The most helpful is the Marriage Records of the Great Synagogue London, 1791 - 1885, plus some other old books I have bought in my quest to find my relations.

My personal interests as is Philip (my 6th Cousin) who regularly posts here, are JACOBS, HELLER, STEINER, PHILLIPS, (last 3 just mine).

Kind Regards

Debbie

[Bo Peep]

That is a wonderful offer, Debbie. Thak you very much.

[Gillian57]

Debbie,

I don't know for sure that I have Jewish ancestors, but it was mentioned in family folklore that this could be a possibility. The name in question is Walledge. I would be interested to know if you have any references to this name in your collection of books, particularly the marriage records. This family is London based.

Thank you

Gill

[maisiem]

Hi Debbie

I'd be very grateful if you could look for a marriage between Isaac Jacobs and Millie (Minnie) Hart sometime before 1881.

Maisie

[Karrie Cutlets]

I also have the Great Synagogue marriage book ( & found a number of my ancestors marriages in it) but does anyone know whether any other synagogue books have been printed, especially London synagogues..

thanks

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Hi Debbie

I'd be very grateful if you could look for a marriage between Isaac Jacobs and Millie (Minnie) Hart sometime before 1881.

Maisie

I have an Isaac Jacobs age 23, father Simon Jacobs (Yitzhank b. Pinhas) 24 Dunk Street marrying a Millie Hart 21 (Note Bride is Minnie in Register), father Joseph Hart (Mindella b. Yosef Halevi) also 24 Dunk Street married on the 10th January 1877, Great Synagogue.

Not sure is this will be of help but look at this link for the Jacob Family, there are also Harts amongst the branches too.

http://www.jacobstree.co.uk/

Hope this helps

Regards Debs

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Debbie,

I don't know for sure that I have Jewish ancestors, but it was mentioned in family folklore that this could be a possibility. The name in question is Walledge. I would be interested to know if you have any references to this name in your collection of books, particularly the marriage records. This family is London based.

Thank you

Gill

Although Walledge doesn't sound like a Jewish name, Jewish names were often made to sound English if the Ancestors arrived from Russian, Germany for example. In my book I have similar sounding names;

Wallach, Wallig, Wallag for example, do you have any dates or first names or know where any of your ancestors come from?

Regards Debs

[maisiem]

Thank you so much. This is definitely them and now I have their fathers' original names too!

Thanks again.

[sandiep]

I also have the Great Synagogue marriage book ( & found a number of my ancestors marriages in it) but does anyone know whether any other synagogue books have been printed, especially London synagogues..

thanks

Yes I have the Bevis Marks records part 11 and part 111 marriages from earliest to 1901

happy to look up

Sandie

[Gillian57]

Debbie,

The furthest back I can go with the Walledge side of my family is the birth in 1798 of William Walledge in West Ham. He married a Sarah (surname unknown). His son William married an Elizabeth Mathison (1847) in Lambeth or an Elizabeth Hopkins (1848) in Stepney. His son John married a Mary Ann Spencer in Poplar (Oct - Dec 1858). John and Mary Ann's daughter, Rosa was my great-grandmother and married a Richard Pettit in Poplar (Oct - Dec 1883).

Hope this helps.

Thanks

Gill

[sandiep]

Hi Gillian
I have looked in my Bevis Marks books and cant see any name that is like Walledge,
do you have any idea where the idea of William being Jewish came from? as Debbie said it is possible that it is a name change but I cant see anything in my books that could be Walledge sorry

sandie

[rayrussell2000u]

Hi,

I am looking for the name Agazzi it originates from italy and there was some talk of Jewish blood.

Thanks

[Ladkyis]

Hi,

I am looking for the name Agazzi it originates from italy and there was some talk of Jewish blood.

Thanks

A date, even if it is approximate would be very helpful. And location if you have even a vague idea. Anything to make the search easier.

[rayrussell2000u]

Pietro Agazzi and Marie Pauline Zazzi were both born in 1851

Pietro in Italy and Marie in France (Paris)

Any help would be great.

[Gilly Lewis]

Hi Debbie,
I'm another Gill. I've been researching the 'Lewis' family, originally from 'Poland/Russia. I have got a bit stuck. My great grandfather travelled and settled in 'San Fransico US mid 1800's. He's christian name was Leonard according to the marriage certificate of my grandfather Benjamin Lewis & my grandmother, Sarah Shafner, (known as Cissie).
Benjamin, bn 1865 in San Francisco, came to England 188o's. However, there is a San Francisco record US record of an Emanuel Lewis that tallies. If you can help, I will be able to give precise dates. Best regards Gilly

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Pietro Agazzi and Marie Pauline Zazzi were both born in 1851

Pietro in Italy and Marie in France (Paris)

Any help would be great.

I had a look in the books and in the Jewish Chronicles nothing with that spellings. I tried putting the surnames into this search engine below and it came up with some possible different spellings of Agazzi that could be Jewish i.e. Agassi. You can try and look up any written material using this free site and any other possible surnames.

http://www.avotaynu.com/csi/csi-home.htm

I had a look at a few other jewish websites that I have access to but nothing on those names, doesn't mean they was not Jewish but the surnames are certainly not coming up.

Sorry Debs

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Hi Debbie,

Benjamin, bn 1865 in San Francisco, came to England 188o's. However, there is a San Francisco record US record of an Emanuel Lewis that tallies. If you can help, I will be able to give precise dates. Best regards Gilly

Sorry Gill a little confused could you please clarify who you want to find is it Benjamin and where? I don't have a great deal of information on USA Jews mostly UK? Not long got up and still half asleep :o

Debs

[sandiep]

Hi Rayrussel

had a look in Bevis Marks books but no Agazzi sorry

sandie

[ET in the USA]

Sorry, I am somewhat uninformed on what exactly you might have to search through, so I'll tell you what I know so far.

Mervyn John Leonard Porter married Fay Weisbach [otherwise Fanny Weisberg] [ age 29] 8 Sep 1943 in The Registry Office in the District of Hackney.
Her father was shown as Harris Weisbach otherwise Weisberg - Carpenter (Journeyman). Witnesses: P. Weisbach & G (or S) Weisbach.
Her Occ: Clothing Manufacturer's Manageress
His Occ: Corporal R.E.M.E.

Fanny Sheba Weisberg was born 12 Oct 1913 at 193 Bethnal Green Rd., Bethnal Green District, County of London.
Father: Harris Weisberg - Cabinet Maker
Mother: Olga Weisberg formerly Penseus.

Fay Sheba Porter died 12 Sep 1957 [age 42] at Jewish Home of Rest, Balham. Informant: J. M. Porter widower of deceased 104 Lingwood Road, E5.
Death cert. issued in Wandsworth District. [NOTE: He called himself John Mervyn, although his real name was Mervyn John]

*********************
Would like any info. on Harris & Olga Weisberg. Where born, married, died.

Also, any info on Jewish home of Rest - address, what was it, etc.

& anything else you find ;) Also confused why they would change surname from Weisberg to Weisbach (sometime between 1913 & 1943). They both sound German to me, if the idea was to appear more English ???

Thanks
Elaine

[sandiep]

Hi ET

sorry but my books dont go up to recent times...........only up to 1900

sandie

[ET in the USA]

OK Thanks. I wasn't sure what you had. Do you have any theories/ideas on why they would change their name from Weisberg to Weisbach sometime between her birth in 1913 & her marriage in 1943 ?
ET

[sandiep]

Most likely reason is purely down to registrar not getting name right.........this has happened to me even today I get various spellings of my name...Pender, pander,,fender and so on.
I had a look on 1901 census quite a few Weisbergs and a couple of weisbach but no Harris..........however most of the Weisbergs seem to have come from Russia
however a Harris Weisberg married an Olga Pensius in 1907 January Quarter in Mile end ref 1c page 680 so you could send for marriage cert that will give you their fathers

sandie

[ET in the USA]

Thanks Sandi,

I don't think I had found the 1907 marriage yet. I'll order the cert. & see what it tells me.

As for the name being spelled various ways, in this case I think the change is intentional. The 1943 marriage cert. for Mervyn & Fay (AKA Fanny) clearly says
"Fay Weisbach otherwise Fanny Weisberg & her father was shown as Harris Weisbach otherwise Weisberg - Carpenter (Journeyman). " Maybe Weisbach is less German looking to the average 1940 Brit ?? I say this because of the WW I & II dates & the name change seeming to be sometime between her 1913 birth & 1943 marriage. Probably never know.
ET

[sandiep]

be interested to know what marriage cert says...............did you also see birth for an Ephraim Weisberg in 1911 same parents as Fanny.

as for name change as you say guess we will never know...........both names are germananic in origin and Askenazi jewish.............they may even really be Weisbach and wrongly put down as weisberg when they first arrived..........guess its all supposition.

sandie

[sandiep]

http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/JML/1083.2/0/1.pdf found this photo of a Phillip Weisberg timber & cabinet shop c 1920...........wonder if that could be the P Weisberg on your wedding cert?? sandie


http://www.movinghere.org.uk/deliveryfiles/PRO/HO396_99_309/0/1.pdf this is one for an Olga Weisbach see what you think


there is also a medal card for a Harris Weisberg serving in Royal Garrison Artillary in Ancestry do you have this?

[ET in the USA]

Sandie,

Amazing work.|bowdown|

I had seen birth for Ephraim [but do not have cert], but not medal card for Harris Weisberg. I have put it on my list for the next trip to the library where they have free An*.

Olga's exemption from internment is interesting. Perhaps Harris had died or didn't have to be exempted because he was either born in UK or had served in WWI ? I will research who was considered an 'Enemy Alien'.

Photo of Weisberg Timber merchant is interesting as it is related to trade of Harris - Carpenter (journeyman) in 1943 & Cabinetmaker in 1913.
Free BMD has a birth for Phillip Weisberg in Mile End in 1882 & I think the man in the photo looks to be about 38-40 years old. There is another Phillip birth in Prestwich in 1897 which would make him 23 in 1920 ish & another Mile End 1906 - way too late to be man in photo. There is a Phillip marriage Sep 1908 Prestwich & a Phillip Birth in 1911 in Edmonton, which isn't the Prestwich Phillip born 1897, since he would be only 11. The Phillip born 1897 probably married in Prestwich in 1921 to 'Jacks'.

Thanks again. I'll make a note to PM you when I get Marriage Cert. of Harris & Olga.

Elaine

[Gilly Lewis]

Hi, You don't seem to of received my last post. Benjamin Lewis bn 1865 came to the UK from San Francisco when he was quite a young man, (For the love of me I cannnot think why!). What I don't know is whether the whole family came to the UK. He married Sarah Shafner in the 1890's in Leeds. What I need to clarify is the name of Benjamins father. Although on the marriage certificate it names his father as Leonard Lewis, on the San Francisco records his name is Emanuel. it's all very complicated! What I know for sure is that Benjamin was bn in san Francisco and that his family immigrated to the USA in the 1830's from Poland/Russia. Other family christian names are Cyril, Alec, Louis, (my father) & Adele, all of them are now deceased and all bn and lived in the UK. Cyril my Uncle was a stand-up comedian d.1976, (know as Robert Louis'The Tatler'). Alec, during WW2 worked at 'The Admiralty'. Louis was a commercial traveller, like his father.
I hope this info is useful.
Thanks Gilly

[sandiep]

Hi Gilly

guess your other message didnt come through...........I see from 1880 US record that Emanuel, age 45 Pauline age 50 Mollie age 18 and Benjamin age 15.....Emanuel & Paulina given birthplace Poland............I dont have US ancestry so cant see anything else

so far can only find a Benjamin right age and birthplace in the 1901 census but his wife is called Bessie from London and they have a son called Cyril born Durham 1900...could benjamin have remarried?

am at work at present so will look in my books when I get home

I can see a marriage for a Benjamin Lewis & a Sarah Shafner in Leicestershire in 1899, so maybee bessie was her pet name.

sandie

[Gilly Lewis]

Hi Sandie,
Benjamin Lewis & Sarah Shafner were married in Leicester in a Register Office in the district of Leicester and Cyril was bn in Co Durham 1899. For some reason Sarah changed her name to Cissie. They were in Dublin when my father was born 1902 and as both their names are on the birth certificate Benjamin & Cissie Lewis. No, Benjamin wasn't married twice. Cissie also had a stage name Blanche.....? she was a performer in 'The Old Time Musicals'. Uncle Cyril who was a stand up comedian and travelled the country saw a poster of my grandmother and wanted to buy it but the owner wasn't selling! he did give me her full theatrical name, but I can only remember the name Blanche.
Thanks for your input, Sandie
Gilly

[sandiep]

Hi Gilly

one of the reasons Benjamin might have put his fathers name as Leonard was to make it seem more english............he didnt marry into Jewish faith did he?......who were the witnesses at the wedding?

I cant find any sign of any other family on the UK census..........it could be Benjamin came on his own............you need someone with access to USA records to do a search for rest of family.............try asking on the USA genealogy forum on here.

good luck sandie

[Gilly Lewis]

Hi Sandie, Yes, Benjamin married Cissie Shafner who was Jewish. Although, as far as I know they were not orthodox Jews, it was Alec Lewis their son who arranged the funeral 23rd June 1944 and decided to have them buried in a Jewish cemetery in East London, which I believe has recently closed down.
In 1899 some USA records were destroyed in a fire. So I haven't managed to get hold of a birth certificate.

I have a copy of Emmanuel's 1891 USA Naturalization Citizenship request because he needed to obtain a passport.
The intended country, I have no idea. But the mystery is that he travelled with his wife and a two year old child (daughter?) Jeanette, If he was bn in 1830's in 1891 he would have been about sixty and his wife, Paulina would have been well past child bearing age, so bit of a mystery really, unless he remarried of course!
Regards Gilly

[sandiep]

Its times like this I wish I had a world access to Ancestry............there is a Jeannette Lewis b 1889 in the 1900 USA census..............but I cant see details....she might have been Mollies daughter of course

Just remembered the new pilot scheme for Family search

been there typed in Jeannette Lewis and guess what 1900 census

Emannuel Lewis age 64 married 13 years born germany(was part of Poland/prussia)
a realestate agent went to states in 1860
wife Theresa age 45 born Germany
daughter Jeannette age 11

http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html?datestamp=1206996688875#p=0

this is site try it but think that loks like your family paulina must have died and Emanuel remarried....what do you think?

sandie

[Gilly Lewis]

Hi Sandie,
Whow! you're amazing and so much better at this research than me. The dates, etc. seem to fit and it's definately possible that Emanuel remarried. Although, I've stiil got a major query with the father named as Leonard on Benjamin/Sarah's Marriage Certificate. He might have changed his name? Also, Estate Agent?? On the marriage certificate it states, Merchant!

Benjamin my grandfather is the only name that does register. However it is interesting that his second wife is named as Theresa, because Benjamins grandaughter was called Theresa. The other mystery being, Julie, Benjamins sister, their was not much of an age gap, three years. Do you think that Mollie of changed her name to Julie. When I first started researching I had many doubts about this being the right Lewis family, but I've just a bit, slightly changed my mind.

I haven't a married surname for Julie I only have the christian nameof her husband, Solomn, (Uncle Solly). I know they moved from Maida Vale, London W9 to Temple Fortune, London, NW11 1945/50. I know the flats, not the number. I am going to the British Library to look up the 'Electoral Register' for that period.

Bless you
Gilly

[Barbara Tidy]

Could you please look up Benjamin Jacobs who married Rachel Moses at the Great Synagogue in 1862.

I would be so grateful thanking you.

Barbara

[sandiep]

Hi Barbara

if its Benjamin Jacobs & Rachel Moses marriage in Gt Synagogue I am afraid my book only goes to 1859..............do you want any census lookups?


Gilly

now you have confused me where did Julie spring from??? I think we had better start again................what info do you have about Benjamin...........I guess you have marriage cert so what witnesses did they have..

What names and dates are you certain of? his siblings and his children
what made you make connection with Emanuel?

we will get there!!

sandie

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Could you please look up Benjamin Jacobs who married Rachel Moses at the Great Synagogue in 1862.

I would be so grateful thanking you.

Barbara

My book does go up to that date but I am on a different Island to where my book is so I will look Monday Evening when I am back from Work

Debs

[Barbara Tidy]

Thank you for that very much appreciated. The problem I have is I need to know if in the Jewish religion they can have a jewish first name and a given first name can you help me with this?

thanks
Barbara

[Gilly Lewis]

Hi Sandie,
No confusion! Just Quering if Benjamins sister, Mollie, named on the USA census (was three years older than Benjamin) might of changed her name to Julie. As I explained, I do not have a married surname for my aunty Julie who married Solomon. my email gilly (dot) interact (at) btinternet (dot) com
Gilly

[Gilly Lewis]

Hi Barbara

if its Benjamin Jacobs & Rachel Moses marriage in Gt Synagogue I am afraid my book only goes to 1859..............do you want any census lookups?


Gilly

now you have confused me where did Julie spring from??? I think we had better start again................what info do you have about Benjamin...........I guess you have marriage cert so what witnesses did they have..

What names and dates are you certain of? his siblings and his children
what made you make connection with Emanuel?

we will get there!!

sandie


Sandie, tried to send you further info but for some reason it wouldn't go. Pop up appeared stated not enough characters? Can you email me. Thanks Gilly

[sandiep]

hi gilly email on its way sandie

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Thank you for that very much appreciated. The problem I have is I need to know if in the Jewish religion they can have a jewish first name and a given first name can you help me with this?

thanks
Barbara

Barbara the record from the Great Synagogue is as follows:

Benjamin Jacobs (22) (binyamin b.binyamin) - which means Benjamin son of Benjamin) Father Benjamin Benjamin Deceased living at 7 St.James Place Aldgate married Rachael Moses (21) (Rahel b. Eliyahu) father Moses Elias of the same address 7th July 1862. There is a note which says ?? name Groom.

Which sort of alludes to your comment above, is there an issue with his name?

Debs

[Barbara Tidy]

Thank you so much the marriage certificate is the same - what would a general dealer be is it the same as a commercial traveller as he is down as this on some of the census?

The problem I have is Elias Jacobs the son of Benjamin & Rachael appears on the census in 1971 and then vanishes until 1991 where he appears as being married to Elizabeth Harriot Diver my great grandmother. On the marriage certificate his fathers name is down as Abram Isaac Jacobs a Commercial Traveller I am confused have I got the wrong Elias in 1871??????????

Confused
Barbara

[sandiep]

Barbara who where the witnesses at Elias wedding ..........sometimes they turn out to be relatives..........does sound as if you might have wrong parents

sandie

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Thank you so much the marriage certificate is the same - what would a general dealer be is it the same as a commercial traveller as he is down as this on some of the census?

The problem I have is Elias Jacobs the son of Benjamin & Rachael appears on the census in 1971 and then vanishes until 1991 where he appears as being married to Elizabeth Harriot Diver my great grandmother. On the marriage certificate his fathers name is down as Abram Isaac Jacobs a Commercial Traveller I am confused have I got the wrong Elias in 1871??????????

Confused
Barbara

What is Elias Jacobs age and where in 1891 was he, I am part of a brigade of cousins who are investigating the Jacobs although it doesn't ring a bell I might at least be able to prove who he was.

Debs

[mikebroe]

Debbie,

I am researching my wifes great great grandfather Phineas BARNETT (1819-1877) and the farthest back that I have been able to trace is his marriage to Sarah JONES (1827-1882). The certificate states that the wedding took place on 14th May 1846 at 20, Freeman Street in the parish of Christchurch in the County of Middlesex according to the Rites and ceremonies of the Jewish religion by Simeon Oppenheim secretary of the Great Synagogue, Dukes Place.
The father of Phineas is given as Getz FLAVIN, a publican.
The father of Sarah is Abraham Jones, deceased. Her address is where the marriage took place. Would this have occurred often?
I have had no luck with naturalization papers or in tracing FLAVIN.
With the exception of the 1861 census I have been able to trace them forward. According to the census returns the children were subsequently born in various parts of England. They finally settled in Bristol and were employed as slipper makers. My wifes mother says that members of the family enventually ran their own shoe factory.

Are you able to help me trace the family farther back? I have contacted various sites dedicated to Jewish descedants but with no luck

Many Thanks

Mike

[Debbie Bozkurt]

Debbie,

The father of Phineas is given as Getz FLAVIN, a publican.

Mike

In the translation of the GS Marriages the father is spelt Getz Flaum - there are a few Flaum about when I searched.

Don't know if this is your great great grandfather:

Phineas Barnett, formerly of Peters-street, St. Peter's, Ipswich,
Suffolk. Boot and Shoe Maker, Licensed Dealer in
Jewellery, and Dealer in Clothes, then of No. 3, Wray'sterrace,
Bethnal-rgreen, and then of No. 23, Nelson-street,
St. Peter's-street, Hackney-road, both in Middlesex, Boot
and Shoe Maker at both the last-named places.

I tried every father to see if there was a Getz nothing I looked at both address on the 1841 and 1851 census, nothing, even looked at London Publicans.

I tried the Germany and Polish Data Bases another spelling appears to be Pflaum and Bluhm to try as the way the Germans/Prussian sound the pf and the bl. I have done a search and there appears to be quite a few of these names about in England in the mid 1850s.

Sorry I couldn't be of much help

Debs

[Barbara Tidy]

What is Elias Jacobs age and where in 1891 was he, I am part of a brigade of cousins who are investigating the Jacobs although it doesn't ring a bell I might at least be able to prove who he was.

Debs

Elias Jacobs was born in 1866 in London or Middlesex county, there are two Elias Jacobs both born in London in the same year. I followed the one whose mothers name was Rachel Moses as in a census later on Elias Jacobs appears as being living with a Rachel Cohen as a step son. Looking further into this I find the tick is under daughter not son so is this a mistake? Elias Jacobs also appears as a son on the Bejamin Jacobs married to Rachael Moses in the 1871 census and then dissapears until the 1891 census when he married Elizabeth Harriett Diver who is my Grandmother.

I just don't know where to go from here any help would be much appreciated.
I do know that Elias and Elizabeth had a shoe factory in Hackney and that Elias was well educated and used to speak Hebrew and chant in the church.

Thanks for your help.
Barbara

[sandiep]

Dont know if this will help another translation has fathers name as Eliyakim Getz Barnett

Sometimes Jones is from Jonas

sandie

[mikebroe]

Debbie,

Thanks for that. This does appear to be my Phineas. After the marriage the next three known children were born in London. The next two were born in Ipswich in 1854 and 1856. So this coincides with the Ipswich address. Then its back to London in 1859 and the rest in Bristol.
Could you tell me the origin of these addresses? They are still in England so why I am unable to find them in the 1861 census. I have had a few difficulties with spellings.

Sandie,

Can you tell me where this translation originated please?

Thanks to you both. I now have something to go on.

Mike

[sandiep]

Hi Mike
http://www.british-jewry.org.uk/

Its Angela Shires book.................if you use this site you can see it for yourself

sandie