Help Required Reading Will

[Peter Goodey]

This is the will that Fidgetsmum would like help with, please.

http://www.goodey.me.uk/misc/Joseph_Greens_Will.pdf

[zippy1]

Hi
I'm S-L-O-W-L-Y making my way through what the will reads:confused:
The first page is quite long-winded (as most wills are) and mentions an executor Thomas Green and a brother in law George (Mack?). It also mentions his wife Margaret Green.
I'll keep going with the transcription and when I'm done I'll email it to you...
Rachel :)

[Mutley]

Oh what a wonderful document to have, even if you cannot read it.
I would have to just keep looking at it.
Beats looking at my 'habitual criminals register' anyday.

[hughar]

Hi
I'm S-L-O-W-L-Y making my way through what the will reads:confused:
The first page is quite long-winded (as most wills are) and mentions an executor Thomas Green and a brother in law George (Mack?). It also mentions his wife Margaret Green.
I'll keep going with the transcription and when I'm done I'll email it to you...
Rachel :)

Suggest the Brother-in-law is George Chalk.

[zippy1]

thanks hughar!
George Chalk is a good alternative to George Mack(?)
I've finished the first page and I'm reaonably happy with my transcription. I'm no expert and will be glad of any input/corrections, I've copied it as in the original so punctuation is all but missed out.
(_____) means I couldn't get this word(s) |help|
(****) means the word is an informed guess i.e. not a stab in the dark!

This is the last Will and Testament
of me Joseph Green of Loose in the said county of Kent, victualler I
devise and bequeath All my Real and Personal Estate unto
and to the use of my Brother Thomas Green of East Farleigh in the said
county of Kent, Grocer and my Brother in Law George Chalk of Loose afore
said Miller their heirs executors administrators and assigns as to the real

estate and personal estate not belonging to me beneficially upon trust to dispose
thereof according to the equities affecting the same and as to the real and
personal estate belonging to me beneficially and which is herinafter
comprised under the denomination of my trust property & upon trust
to dispose thereof according to the directions hereinafter contained that is
to say I direct that my trustees shall at such time or times after my wife
Margaret Green shall die or marry again as having regard to the destination
of my trust property under this my Will they shall judge expedient for
during her widowhood with her consent sell my real trust property by public
or private sale together or in lots and invest the produce conformably to
the clause for investment of moneys hereinafter contained and shall
in the meantime let from year to year of for a term of years upon
husbandry building repairing or improving leases or occupy and use
my said real estate and manage the (accounts) thereof generally at their
discretion but subject to the directions hereinafter contained in favor
of my said wife I direct that my debts and funeral and testamentary
expences shall be paid as soon as may be out of such parts of my
personal estate as shall not be required to answer the direction next
hereinafter contained but this direction or the power to pay debts herein
after given to my executors shall not (revive) or improve the condition of
any debt barred or in the progress of being barred by any statutory or other
invitation I direct that my trustees shall permit my said wife she
continuing my widow to carry on the trade or business in which I shall
or engaged at my death and to use and employ for that purpose
with part of my real and personal estate as shall be then used or employed
therein with power for any trustees to (____) or diminish at their
discretion the real and personal estate so used or employed and in the
event of her dying marrying or declining to carry on such trade or business
then my said trustees if they shall think fit may in like manner carry
on the same for such period as having regard to the directions herein
after contained concerning my trust property they shall judge expedient
I direct that my trustees shall permit my wife she continuing my widow

personally to occupy as her residence the messuage wherein I now reside
at Loose aforesaid with the appertenures and to use therein my
household furniture and utensils plate linen china and consumable stores
she keeping the said messuage in repair and paying the expence of
incuring the same from loss or damage by fire and also the taxes and
other outgoing affecting the same I direct but subject to the previous
dispositions that my trustees shall convert my personal trust property and
consisting of moneys invested in stocks funds or securities yielding income
other than personal securities and shall at their directions either get
in the moneys invested as last aforesaid or permit the same to
continue so invested and shall invest the produce of the trust property
so converted or get in pursuant to the general direction for investment
hereinafter contained I direct that my trustess shall permit my wife
she continuing my widow to receive from my death the net annual
income actually produced by my trust property howsoever constituted
or invested and whether yeilding more or less than the ordinary rate
of interest and including a proportion of the payments accruing due
at my death whether ordinarily apportionable or not and including
the profits of my trade or business if carried on pursuant to this at

Phew ... |5cups|
Well that is page one

Rachel :)

[busyglen]

Haven't had chance for a good read, but the East Sarleigh, is East Farleigh.

Will have another look when I have the time, but suspect other's will have solved all of the problems by the time I get back. ;)

Glenys

[Peter Goodey]

Well done Rachel - mammoth typing exercise :)

Here are a few suggestions:

...in the County of Kent, victualler. I devise and bequeath...
...Thomas Green of East Farleigh...
...County of Kent Grocer...
...miller their heirs executors administrators and assigns...

[zippy1]

thanks Glenys!
My East Sarleigh was actually on my list of things to check before I posted the message but forgot |oopsredfa

Cheers
Rachel :)

[zippy1]

thanks Peter, it was a bit of a task, I'm meant to be packing to go to Weston-super-Mare tomorrow but have been consumed by this will most of the afternoon!!!
Why, when someone else points out what a word/words are, does it seem so obvious!?! ;)

Rachel :)

[busyglen]

thanks Peter, it was a bit of a task, I'm meant to be packing to go to Weston-super-Mare tomorrow but have been consumed by this will most of the afternoon!!!
Why, when someone else points out what a word/words are, does it seem so obvious!?! ;)

Rachel :)

We all view things differently, so don't worry about it. I only knew about East Farleigh because it is in the County where I live and I have been there.
;)

Have a nice time in Weston.

Glenys

[Peter Goodey]

one more contribution and then it's coffee time ;)

...they shall judge expedient for or during...

[zippy1]

hello
I've figured out what the second page says, again I'm open to imput/corrections...
However, it is quite late so I'll post the second page as transcribed by me, another time. Judging by the amount of time it took me to type page one up I'll save it for when I get back from Weston on Tuesday!!
I'm off to bed now|snore|

Rachel :)

[Fidgetsmum]

I know Rachel, you won't see this yet, but can I just say a huge thank you for all the work you've done so far? It's absolutely brilliant and I can't thank you enough. |hug|

F'smum

[Ladkyis]

This is what the forum is best at, helping people. The truth is that we are all dead curious about stuff and give us half a chance to read, decipher, investigate or just plain stick our noses in and we are there, like a ferret down a rabbit hole.

Lovely to see another problem being solved

[Justme]

To fill in the unknown words in Rachel's transcript (in order):-

conformably (?)
meantime
expences
"may in like manner"
concerning
expedient
consumable stores
expence (delete the word "us" - it's a filler pattern for the end of a line)
also
funds
pursuant
investment
net
howsoever (not house)
yielding
accruing due (instead of "but")
pursuant to the (instead of "this at" right at the end - again it's a filler pattern)

The will goes on to name two sons, John Green and Charles Connell Green. Thomas Green and George Chalk were appointed executors.

The lack of punctuation & the filler patterns at ends of lines were supposed to prevent anyone coming along later and slipping in an alteration. "Expence" is the spelling used in all wills that I've seen.

Ess

[Geoffers]

the produce (_________) - conforming

the house - doubtful - try 'manor' (manner)

in the (_________) - meantime

(testamentary)(________) - testamentary expences


continuing my widow to carry on the trade or business in which
or - which I shall be

with - (read such) part of my real and personal estate - You jumped a line here and msised a bit.

such part of my real and presonal estate as shall be then used or employed
therein with power for my trustees with power for my trustees to increas or diminish at their
discretion the real and personal estate so used or employed


life (_______) - like manner

after contained (_______) - concerning

my trust property they shall judge (_______) - expedient
I direct that my trustees shall permit my wife she continuing my widow

personally to occupy as her residence the (messuage) which - change 'which' to 'wherein'

utensils plate linen china and (_______) - removeable

in repair and paying the (_____) - expence

incuring the same from loss or damage - change 'incuring' to 'insuring'

by fire and (____) - also

moneys invested in (stocks) (___) - funds

or get in (______) - pursuant

to the general direction for (invest___) - investment


death the (______) - net


trust property (house___) - howsoever

whether (____ing) - yielding

proportion of the payments (_____) - accruing

[ChrisD_S]

thanks Peter, it was a bit of a task, I'm meant to be packing to go to Weston-super-Mare tomorrow but have been consumed by this will most of the afternoon!!!


You'll be please to know that the sun is shining in Weston today, and it should be doing the same tomorrow.

I'm off to Birmingham on Thursday, just to make sure the country is in balance and we don't tip into the sea ;)

[zippy1]

Hello again
I'm back from Weston and had a lovely time with my 2 1/2 year old son. I was a bit dubious as to whether he would like the sand but he loved it and was rolling in it and it was getting EVERYWHERE...
...anyway...
Fidgetsmum - your welcome, I'm glad I can help wherever I can
Ladkyis - you're right when you say we like to help (or stick our noses in);)
ChrisD_S - I hope Birmingham is as good to you as Weston was to me
Geoffers and Justme - thanks for your input, as I said I'm no expert so your help is much appreciated

page two... again I'm open to corrections where necessary... |help|

direction hereinbefore contained I direct that my wife during her widowhood
shall out of the income to be received by her pursuant to the last clause
maintain educate and bring up my children being sons until the age
of twenty one years and being daughters until that age or marriage
and shall also maintain such of my daughters as being of that age shall
not be or have been married by my trustees shall not be obliged to see
this direction fulfilled of any of my children being sons shall attain
twenty one or being daughters shall marry during the widowhood of my
wife Then it shall be lawful for my trustees but subject to the specific
dispositions hereinbefore contained to raise by such means as they shall
judge expedient out of my trust property for each such child any sum not
exceeding thirty five pounds to be applied towards his or her advancement
in life in such manner as my trustees shall think most beneficial and
to be accounted for by such child on the distribution of my trust property
pursuant to the directon hereinafter contained I direct that subject to
the preceeding directions my trustees shall hold my trust property for the
absolute use of my child if only one or all my children equally if more
than one who being a son or sons shall attain the age of twenty one
years or being a daughter or daughters shall attain that age or marry
I direct that my real estate shall be considered for the purpose of
enjoyment and transmission under the trust declared by the last
clause as converted into personal estate from my death I direct that my
trustees after the death or marriage of my wife shall apply the whole
or so much as they shall think fit of the annual income of the
contingent portion to which each child of mine shall be entitled
the same trust towards the maintenece education or bringing up
of such child and shall accumulate the unapplied income and add the
accumulations to the portions whence the same shall have arisen
I direct that my trustees have power in their direction after the
death or marriage of my wife to raise by such means as they shall
judge expedient out of my trust property any part not exceeding one
half of the principle or value of the contingent portion of each child
and apply the same for his or her advancement in life I direct but
subject to the provision for advancement herein before contained that
my trustees shall after the death or marriage of my wife invest and
continue invested in their names persuant to the general direction
hereinafter contained the contingent portions of my children I direct
that all investments to be made in pursuance of my will shall be
made in or upon government or real securities at interest and that
my trustees shall have power in their discretion to vary such
investments for any other investments of the description specific
in this direction I direct that my trustees shall have power at their
discretion to settle any accounts to settle any accounts and wind up any
affairs and in so doing to make such arrangements relative to debts
or demands due or claimed to be due to or from my estate as they
shall judge expedient with liberty to accept compositions or securities
from and grant indulgences to debtors and wholly to release property
mortgages or pledges on part payment of the money secured and to
admit the claims of creditors on evidence not strictly legal and to pay
demands which have become barred by any statutory or other in
limitation and also to submit questions and accounts to arbitration I
direct that my trustees may employ bailiffs collectors clerks accountants
and servants collecting debts and rents and otherwise in the
administration of my trust property and in making out and keeping
the accounts thereof with such salaries and allowances as they shall
think reasonable I direct that purchasers and others taking the
receipt of my trustees on the payment ot transfer to them of any

Ok, that's that one done, I'll get on to the rest later... tea time now...

Rachel:)

[Geoffers]

Well done Rachel - it's nice to see someone having a go.

The blank bits are as follows.............

direction hereinafter - change to - direction hereinbefore

the last (_____) (_____)(_____) - clause maintain educate
and bring up my children being sons until the age

subject to the (____) - specific

by such (____) - means

applied towards his or her (______) - advancement

shall be considered for the purpose - change purpose to purposes

enjoyment and (____) - transmission

the same trust towards the (____) - maintenance

accumulations to the portions (____) - whence

the same shall have (____) - arisen

death or marriage of my wife to raise by such (____) - means

my trustees shall have power in their direction - change driection to discretion

description (specifics) - for specifics read specific

(____) the (____) of creditors - admit the claims of creditors

on (evidence) not (____) - on evidence not strictly
legal and to pay

[zippy1]

hi
I must apologise for not getting back to the task at hand sooner. Thanks Geoffers for your input, it is much appreciated. I'll edit page 1 and 2 ASAP after I've typed up the next bit.
well here's the next installment up to the 'codicil'
once again, you know the score, I'm more than happy for input/corrections |help|

money or effects shall be thereby exonorated from all liability in respect of
the application thereof I direct that my trustees may deduct and
eventually allow to each other all disbursements and expences incident
to the execution of my Will and shall be responsible each for his own
acts and defaults only and irresponsible for losses occuring without
wilful neglect or default and shall be indemnified with or out of my trust

property against all liabilities consequential on the execution
of my Will and particularly as regards the carrying on of my trade
pursuant to the direction hereinbefore contained I direct that us in
person herein named or to be appointed a trustee who shall cease to
reside in Loose aforesaid or within three miles thereof shall continue
to be a trustee and that any and every vacancy in the trusteeship
of my will occasioned by disclaimer resignation non-residence or death
shall be supplied as soon as may be by the appointment of a fit
substitute resident as aforesaid such appointment to be made by my
wife during her widowhood and after her death or marriage by
the continuing trustees or trustee if any or if none by my legal
personal representative or representatives for the time being and on
every such appointment my trust property transferrable at law
shall be legally vested by proper conveyances and my trust property
not transferrble at law shall be equitably vested by force of the
appointment itself in the new trustees either about or as the case may
be jointly with the continuing or surviving trustees or trustee I direct
that the trusts and the powers hereinbefore confided to my trustees herein
named may be executed by the trustees or trustee for the time being of
my Will and in regard to new trustees to be appointed as well before as
after the vesting of the trust property in them I appoint my said
brother Thomas Green and my said brother in law George Chalk to
be Trustees and Executors of my will and I appoint my wife she
continuing my widow and after her death or marriage the trustees or
trustee for the time being of my Will to be guardians or guardian of
the persons and fortunes of my infant children In Witnesses whereof
the said Joseph Green the Testator have to this my last Will and
Testament contained in four sheets of paper set my hand at the foot or
end of each of the said sheets this twenty seventh day of March in the
year of our Lord One thousand eight hundred and forty seven - Joseph
Green - asigned by the said Joseph Green the Testator as and for his last
Will and Testament in the presence of us the undersigned witnesses
present at the same time who at his request in his presence and in the
presence of each other have hereunto set and subscribed our names as
attesting witnesses - David Tanner Sweetlove Solicitor Maidstone Kent
Thomas Skeere(?) of Maidstone First Gentleman

I'll get on to the last bit later...

Rachel :)

[Fidgetsmum]

I'd like to thank everyone who kindly contributed to this mammoth task, but in particular I want to thank you Rachel for your kindness in giving up what must have been hours of your precious time. Thank you so, so much |hug||hug|

I can't believe firstly, that you did it so quickly considering the writing, and secondly that you stuck with it, given it's length and incredibly boring content! I have to say I'm left wondering whether Joseph's solicitor didn't actually charge by the word!

Now that I have this super transcript I am going to print out both, study them carefully, and am going to use them as a 'tutorial' in order to try and decipher two others Wills which I also have.

Somehow, 'thank you' seems woefully inadequate, but .... well ... thank you |angel|

Fidgetsmum

[Peter Goodey]

You may want to add a note to your list of things to do to search for the original will when you next visit the National Archives (what you downloaded was the court copy).

The original will (in series PROB 10) won't actually tell you anything more but lots of people like having the original for completeness and for the original signatures etc. They can also be easier to read!! ;)

[Geoffers]

Missing bit from Page 2

direct that my trustees may employ bailiffs collectors (____) accountants - clerks

Page 3

the persons and fortunes of my infant children In (____) whereof
- witness

the (foot) or - foot is correct

(___) of each of the said sheets - end

Green - asigned by the said Joseph Green the Testator as (___) - and

attesting witnesses - David (_)anner (_____) - Tanner Sweetlove
Thomas (____) - Speen?

[zippy1]

Hi,
Apologies for the lateness of the last installment...
Please let me know if there's any corrections...

Fidgetsmum - you're more than welcome, it has taken me hours but as much as it helps you it helps me and others in trying to decipher handwriting and Will 'speak' from yester year, sorry I didn't find you any missing millions. As I said in an earlier post I'm no expert at transcribing so if it is in anyway incorrect I apologise.

(Page 3 continued...)

This is a Codicil to the last Will and Testament
(of me) Joseph Green of Loose in the County of Kent Vitualler and
which bears date the twenty seventh day of March One Thoousand
eight hundred and forty seven Whereas I have by my said Will subject
to contain trusts therein mentioned given my general trust money
Property Estate and Effects unto all my Children generally equally
as therein mentioned Now I do hereby revoke the said bequest as
regards my two sons John Green and Charles Connell Green and in
lieu thereof do give and bequeath unto my said two sons the said
John Green and Charles Connell Green a legacy each of fifty pounds
to be paid and payable to them within twelve calendar months
after the bereave of my Wife Margaret Green and in all other respects
I confirm my said Will in Witnesses whereof I have hereunto set my
hand this seventh day of April in the year One Thousand eight hundred

(Page 4)

and forty nine - The Mark of X Joseph Green - signed by the said
Joseph Green the Testator as a Codicil to his last Will and Testament in the
presence of us present at the same time who in his presence at his request
and in the presence of each other have hereunto set and subscribed our
names as Witnesses - David Tanner Sweetlove Solicitor Maidstone
Thomas Skeere(?)
Proved at London with a Codicil the 1st Sept 1849 before the Judge
by the Oath of George Chalk one of the Executors to whom (____) was
granted having been first sworn by (____) duly to Administer Power
reserved of making the like Grant to Thomas Green the Brother the other
Executor when he shall apply for the same.

That's it folks...
Rachel :)

[Mutley]

The might of the forum, to ALL who helped, from the beginning to the end - Unbelievable!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/dawnabee/ZZZZ%20UNSORTED/Clappinghandswelldonedbe1111.gif

[Jan1954]

Unbelievable!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/dawnabee/ZZZZ%20UNSORTED/Clappinghandswelldonedbe1111.gif

Seconded! I have been following this with amazement, Rachel, and am now thinking of sending you the property indentures of my 5 x great grandfather, written in 1812. ;)

Well done you!

[zippy1]

Thanks Mutley, I appreciate your sentiments. It was a bit of a slog, but for some (possibly sick) reason I enjoyed it, does this make me an expert in transcribing Wills yet? |laugh1|
Maybe not, I'll be giving Wills a break for a little while ;)

Rachel :)

[zippy1]

Thanks Geoffers for your invaluable input, I've done the edits for the previous parts thanks to you |bowdown|

Thanks Jan, I'm going to stay away from reading old documents for a bit though ;)

Rachel :)